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Just let two immigrants in to replace me. Much cheaper and easier than raising kids.

jdkee 1y ago
Ethnic replacement.
xlii 1y ago
I see this twofold: what happens if net outcome is negative. Who would pay for it? The same argument could be made for children, but a counterpoint could be made that given family history outcome is more stable than with unknown immigrant. On the other hand, there is VERY interesting idea: personal immigration responsibility. Just as „mail bride” look for immigrants you’d be willing to sponsor in exchange for retirement. Probably there are 5 million problems but would put personal stake for sponsor. Limit to 2 per person and people would do a lot of research as their retirement would depend on it. The country might also gain because I’d expect that people would look for high-value individuals that would maximize their chance for well being. Finally, this could be used to revive drying out regions: bind this to a country/state/administrative region and that could help shaping it in the future.
sheepscreek 1y ago
It’s a profoundly sad trend. Our obsession with nuclear families and individualism has led us to a point where raising a family has become financially impossible and unimaginable. The immigration fix is analogous to quantitative easing. The problems are systemic, and turning a blind eye to them won’t make them disappear. Honestly, we need to rethink capitalism. By promoting shareholder returns over the wellbeing of employees, companies are destroying the social fabric necessary for a healthy civilization. Of course, the rise in costs and the widening wealth gap are equally to blame. This situation compels both parents to work, sometimes even holding multiple jobs, leaving them with insufficient time to raise children. This cycle continues until the next generation has no chance of affording their own home (or even a rental). How on earth are they supposed to raise a family?
alexey-salmin 1y ago
That's a great plan. Also make sure to deny citizenship to them and their kids, otherwise they'll eventually vote to stop paying your pensions. The glory of apartheid states of the past awaits us.
rayiner 1y ago
It would be hard to distill the fallacy of human fungibility into a purer form than this. If you’re say Danish, the kids you raise will be Danish. The immigrants won’t be Danish, they’ll be like the people from their country of origin: https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-transplant https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-tran.... And as a result, they won’t be nearly as economically productive as Danes, ironically undermining the whole point of immigration: https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-turned-against-immigration https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-t... The tremendous contribution that Danes can make to the world is to have and raise more Danish children!
- SarahC_ 1y ago
  Far right talking points! They'll be as Danish and any other Danes, just choosing to live life as they see fit. >"And as a result, they won’t be nearly as economically productive as Danes, ", how does someone with a different religion, or choice for music make them less economically productive? Are you suggesting they don't know white collar skills? Or are less intelligent due to were they were born?
  - alexey-salmin 1y ago
    It's as if culture and religion matters, what an insane idea...
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- nicbou 1y ago
  What makes Danish children productive is not their Danish blood, it's the culture and infrastructure that they operate in. The children of any nation would be equally capable. As an immigrant myself, I find the second article silly. You import people according to your own criteria, and they arrive pre-raised and pre-educated. A larger proportion of them will leave the country before retirement age. It's a hell of a deal for a country, and that's why it's everyone's solution. Immigrants are a much bigger drain on the country they are leaving.

Ethnic replacement.

xlii 1y ago

I see this twofold: what happens if net outcome is negative. Who would pay for it? The same argument could be made for children, but a counterpoint could be made that given family history outcome is more stable than with unknown immigrant. On the other hand, there is VERY interesting idea: personal immigration responsibility. Just as „mail bride” look for immigrants you’d be willing to sponsor in exchange for retirement. Probably there are 5 million problems but would put personal stake for sponsor. Limit to 2 per person and people would do a lot of research as their retirement would depend on it. The country might also gain because I’d expect that people would look for high-value individuals that would maximize their chance for well being. Finally, this could be used to revive drying out regions: bind this to a country/state/administrative region and that could help shaping it in the future.

sheepscreek 1y ago

It’s a profoundly sad trend. Our obsession with nuclear families and individualism has led us to a point where raising a family has become financially impossible and unimaginable. The immigration fix is analogous to quantitative easing. The problems are systemic, and turning a blind eye to them won’t make them disappear. Honestly, we need to rethink capitalism. By promoting shareholder returns over the wellbeing of employees, companies are destroying the social fabric necessary for a healthy civilization. Of course, the rise in costs and the widening wealth gap are equally to blame. This situation compels both parents to work, sometimes even holding multiple jobs, leaving them with insufficient time to raise children. This cycle continues until the next generation has no chance of affording their own home (or even a rental). How on earth are they supposed to raise a family?

alexey-salmin 1y ago

That's a great plan. Also make sure to deny citizenship to them and their kids, otherwise they'll eventually vote to stop paying your pensions. The glory of apartheid states of the past awaits us.

rayiner 1y ago

It would be hard to distill the fallacy of human fungibility into a purer form than this. If you’re say Danish, the kids you raise will be Danish. The immigrants won’t be Danish, they’ll be like the people from their country of origin: https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-transplant https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-tran.... And as a result, they won’t be nearly as economically productive as Danes, ironically undermining the whole point of immigration: https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-turned-against-immigration https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-t... The tremendous contribution that Danes can make to the world is to have and raise more Danish children!

SarahC_ 1y ago
Far right talking points! They'll be as Danish and any other Danes, just choosing to live life as they see fit. >"And as a result, they won’t be nearly as economically productive as Danes, ", how does someone with a different religion, or choice for music make them less economically productive? Are you suggesting they don't know white collar skills? Or are less intelligent due to were they were born?
- alexey-salmin 1y ago
  It's as if culture and religion matters, what an insane idea...
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deleted 1y ago
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nicbou 1y ago
What makes Danish children productive is not their Danish blood, it's the culture and infrastructure that they operate in. The children of any nation would be equally capable. As an immigrant myself, I find the second article silly. You import people according to your own criteria, and they arrive pre-raised and pre-educated. A larger proportion of them will leave the country before retirement age. It's a hell of a deal for a country, and that's why it's everyone's solution. Immigrants are a much bigger drain on the country they are leaving.