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Let’s put busting the ticketmaster monopoly to the side for a second, and look at the issue regardless of players If you want to remove scalpers, just make sur

by EGreg 1y ago

Let’s put busting the ticketmaster monopoly to the side for a second, and look at the issue regardless of players If you want to remove scalpers, just make sure tickets are non-transferrable and run an auction for price discovery. I built it on the blockchain years ago.

bsder 1y ago
You can't put Ticketmaster aside precisely because Ticketmaster likes scalpers. They don't want to shut down scalpers. Hell, for all I know, Ticketmaster might actually BE the scalpers (talk about paranoia ... but, hey, vertical integration for the win). Consequently, even if there are "technical" solutions to scalpers, the socio-political aspects prevent the solution from being deployed.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  TM solved this already, five years ago with their digital tix platform. They got rid of physical tickets, implemented auction pricing for the best seats, and took over the reseller market as well. They became the scalpers and took their revenue.
rwmj 1y ago
Ticket sellers can easily run their operations using a standard relational database. A blockchain solves no problem they have.
- EGreg 1y ago
  That’s not true. The problem of whether the person actually has the money for the ticket. If it’s done by credit card then you have the problem of refunding so many people and getting a bad reputation with the middleman processor. See, unlike a blockchain, that middleman has policies that penalize legitimate price discovery mechanisms like auctions. So you have to take risks for no reason other than to appease a middleman’s risk department, or get deplatformed… ah the joy of depending on a third party walled garden. In other types of walled gardens, you get why open protocols are better, but on HN it is like, a requirement, to say “blockchain solves no problem”. Just like with capitalism you must say “there is nothing wrong with capitalism but..” and with AI you must say “whatever problem you are describing already existed before so AI didnt introduce any new ones…”
  - pornel 1y ago
    That's just an overcomplicated way of doing pre-authorization. Talk about decentralisation and anti-deplatforming makes no sense here. Concerts are a physical thing happening in the real world, organized by selected "centralized" entities. Venues can refuse to host an artist. Artist can "rug pull" by refusing to host. Imaginary tokens can't do anything about that, and we already have laws, contracts, and currencies that have been dealing with that for as long as these things existed.
    - EGreg 1y ago
      Card Network Rules: Payment processors and card networks have rules about the use of pre-authorizations. Excessive or inappropriate use can be flagged, potentially leading to penalties, holds on your account, or even termination of your merchant account. Customer Experience: Imagine a customer who participates in several auction bids and has a pre-authorization placed for each bid. This can lead to: Blocked Funds: A large amount of their credit limit could be temporarily blocked, making it difficult for them to use the card for other transactions. Confusion: Customers might be confused about multiple holds on their account, leading to inquiries and chargebacks. Negative Experience: A poor customer experience can hurt your reputation. Risk of Expiration & Release: If pre-authorizations expire, and the auction is not completed, you might have to re-authorize, which can be disruptive and annoying to the customer. False Availability of Funds: Since not all bidders will win, placing holds on all bidders' accounts gives a misleading view of how much funding you might actually have available to you. Chargebacks & Disputes: Confused customers with multiple pre-authorizations are more likely to dispute charges, which can hurt your merchant standing and reputation. Processor Scrutiny: A merchant running a high volume of pre-authorizations relative to actual sales could be perceived as risky behavior. Processors will scrutinize businesses with higher dispute rates and high pre-authorization-to-capture ratios.
      - kassner 1y ago
        All of that can be custom for the industry, the same way air travel has had custom rules in credit card processing since forever.
hakfoo 1y ago
Nontransferrable would deflate prices though. If I spend $nnn on a ticket, there's some reassurance that if I get sick/called into a work or family emergency I can throw the ticket on Craigslist or some officially-sanctioned double-dipping scheme and at least get some of my expenditure back. How much cheaper does it have to be to compensate for greater risk?

by EGreg 1y ago

bsder 1y ago

You can't put Ticketmaster aside precisely because Ticketmaster likes scalpers. They don't want to shut down scalpers. Hell, for all I know, Ticketmaster might actually BE the scalpers (talk about paranoia ... but, hey, vertical integration for the win). Consequently, even if there are "technical" solutions to scalpers, the socio-political aspects prevent the solution from being deployed.

mixmastamyk 1y ago
TM solved this already, five years ago with their digital tix platform. They got rid of physical tickets, implemented auction pricing for the best seats, and took over the reseller market as well. They became the scalpers and took their revenue.

rwmj 1y ago

Ticket sellers can easily run their operations using a standard relational database. A blockchain solves no problem they have.

EGreg 1y ago
That’s not true. The problem of whether the person actually has the money for the ticket. If it’s done by credit card then you have the problem of refunding so many people and getting a bad reputation with the middleman processor. See, unlike a blockchain, that middleman has policies that penalize legitimate price discovery mechanisms like auctions. So you have to take risks for no reason other than to appease a middleman’s risk department, or get deplatformed… ah the joy of depending on a third party walled garden. In other types of walled gardens, you get why open protocols are better, but on HN it is like, a requirement, to say “blockchain solves no problem”. Just like with capitalism you must say “there is nothing wrong with capitalism but..” and with AI you must say “whatever problem you are describing already existed before so AI didnt introduce any new ones…”
- pornel 1y ago
  That's just an overcomplicated way of doing pre-authorization. Talk about decentralisation and anti-deplatforming makes no sense here. Concerts are a physical thing happening in the real world, organized by selected "centralized" entities. Venues can refuse to host an artist. Artist can "rug pull" by refusing to host. Imaginary tokens can't do anything about that, and we already have laws, contracts, and currencies that have been dealing with that for as long as these things existed.
  - EGreg 1y ago
    Card Network Rules: Payment processors and card networks have rules about the use of pre-authorizations. Excessive or inappropriate use can be flagged, potentially leading to penalties, holds on your account, or even termination of your merchant account. Customer Experience: Imagine a customer who participates in several auction bids and has a pre-authorization placed for each bid. This can lead to: Blocked Funds: A large amount of their credit limit could be temporarily blocked, making it difficult for them to use the card for other transactions. Confusion: Customers might be confused about multiple holds on their account, leading to inquiries and chargebacks. Negative Experience: A poor customer experience can hurt your reputation. Risk of Expiration & Release: If pre-authorizations expire, and the auction is not completed, you might have to re-authorize, which can be disruptive and annoying to the customer. False Availability of Funds: Since not all bidders will win, placing holds on all bidders' accounts gives a misleading view of how much funding you might actually have available to you. Chargebacks & Disputes: Confused customers with multiple pre-authorizations are more likely to dispute charges, which can hurt your merchant standing and reputation. Processor Scrutiny: A merchant running a high volume of pre-authorizations relative to actual sales could be perceived as risky behavior. Processors will scrutinize businesses with higher dispute rates and high pre-authorization-to-capture ratios.
    - kassner 1y ago
      All of that can be custom for the industry, the same way air travel has had custom rules in credit card processing since forever.

hakfoo 1y ago

Nontransferrable would deflate prices though. If I spend $nnn on a ticket, there's some reassurance that if I get sick/called into a work or family emergency I can throw the ticket on Craigslist or some officially-sanctioned double-dipping scheme and at least get some of my expenditure back. How much cheaper does it have to be to compensate for greater risk?