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There's not enough immigrants that actually are of financial benefit to Denmark. Only European immigrants are a large financial benefit throughout their lifespa

There's not enough immigrants that actually are of financial benefit to Denmark. Only European immigrants are a large financial benefit throughout their lifespan, and Middle Eastern immigrants are a financial detriment even in their prime working years[0]. That is apart from the cultural effects of having a large portion of your population consist of non-Danish, and especially non-European immigrants, which might have its own detrimental effect on the birth rate. [0] Figure 2.7 of the Danish Government report "Økonomisk Analyse: Indvandreres nettobidrag til de offentlige finanser i 2018" - https://fm.dk/udgivelser/2021/oktober/oekonomisk-analyse-indvandreres-nettobidrag-til-de-offentlige-finanser-i-2018/ https://fm.dk/udgivelser/2021/oktober/oekonomisk-analyse-ind...

mmooss 1y ago
It turns out that economic productivity is not tied to ethnicity or where you are from - fundamentally racist notions - but to how productive you are.
- nine_k 1y ago
  It's not about race, it's about culture and education. For instance, Chinese immigrants are usually an economic boost anywhere they go, due to the can-do attitude and respect for education and business activity in the Chinese culture in general. Also the Chinese immigrants in question, like many others, usually immigrate seeking a better life, it's a strong self-selection filter. Middle Eastern immigrants of last 10-15 years in Europe are refugees, displaced by wars; they did not choose Denmark (or other Western European countries) because they planned to integrate and to prosper there, they ran there to merely stay alive. They need a lot of help adapting. Even if they are very willing to work, they may lack the knowledge required for gainful employment, and there are only so many dish-washing and trash-disposal jobs. Those who adapt can make it big; consider people like Freddie Mercury or Nassim Taleb.
  - selimthegrim 1y ago
    Freddie Mercury wasn't of Middle Eastern background.
    - telotortium 1y ago
      And Taleb is a Christian Arab, which are genetically distinct from the majority Muslim Arab population.
      - selimthegrim 1y ago
        Citation needed, this might not be true for non-Maronites (like Taleb) and outside Lebanon.
    - nine_k 1y ago
      The sultanate of Zanzibar is technically closer to Africa than to the Arabian peninsula, it was a remnant of the Omani empire, with very thick Middle Eastern influence, and obviously Muslim culture.
      - selimthegrim 1y ago
        His parents were of Indian Parsi background.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > It's not about race It is about race, and here is a commenter saying it explicitly, while you know others resort to dog whistles and other workarounds. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44091194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44091194 The problem with immigration isn't immigrants, it's racists. Immigration has never caused me any problem at all - it's added a lot to my life and my communities, in fact - and I've lived around many immigrants. > Chinese immigrants are usually an economic boost Chinese immigrants were hated and discriminated against for much of US history, going back over a century. You could hardly pick a worse example for your claim. The US is built by uneducated immigrants - including from China - who came to the land of freedom and opportunity. China was a land of extreme poverty and illiteracy for much of US history (something Western countries had a hand in causing, and I'm very glad for people there that they have so much more prosperity now). (However, the most prosperous Chinese people are in the democratic areas, Taiwan and, until recently, Hong Kong. It's freedom and democracy, not culture and language that matter. Give people freedom and they prosper.) It's all just stuff fabricated by racists to rationalize their prejudices. Look at the horrors Europe has inflicted on itself and the world due to these prejudices and rationalizations - the most destructive events in human history. Enough.
    - ryan93 1y ago
      no white person of means in europe EVER lives around muslim "refugees".
      - mmooss 1y ago
        More racism on their part - that's the problem, as I said. I also very much doubt that is true, but generally people do generally segregate by economic means, and first generation immigrants understandably tend to live in their own communities, everywhere. Where else do you find people to talk to, who understand you; where else do you even find dinner or some decent proper tea? Racism is the problem.
- decimalenough 1y ago
  Middle Eastern immigrants are not (usually, relatively, on average) unproductive because of their skin color. They're unproductive because they suffer from a large language barrier, tend to have large families that use more government subsidies, are often traumatized by the conditions they escaped, have qualifications that are not recognized in Denmark and have to work menial jobs instead, face racism when they apply for jobs they are qualified for, etc.
  - LightBug1 1y ago
    You mean, like any/many immigrant waves? And then their children turn out to be some of the most productive and contributory to a nation (in my experience), even despite some of the headwinds.
    - Bassilisk 1y ago
      Perhaps in the US due to pre-selection, but in Europe the 2nd generation of those MENA migrants frequently becomes an even bigger burden to the host countries due to the former turning to criminal activities or radicalization.
      - LightBug1 1y ago
        "frequently" ... about as useful as my "in my experience", lol Sorry, I don't buy that argument re: second generation. I've lived and seen it. Perhaps my lived experience isn't representative but I don't see second generation citizens turning to crime or radicalisation in huge numbers. I see them at work, and looking after their families. I fear the brush you are using is so broad as to, sorry, be useless.
        ryan93 1y ago
        https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/nearly-two-thirds-of-convicted-rapists-in-sweden-are-migrants-or- https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/nearly-two-third...
- Scarblac 1y ago
  It's because the ME immigrants that make it to Denmark are traumatized refugees from war zones, with education that isn't recognized so they can often only do minimum wage work if they work at all. That's not racist, that's a result of laws and treaties.
  - account42 1y ago
    There are no refugees coming from ME to Denmark. Refugees go to nearby countries, people who travel halfway around the world are economic migrants.
    - Scarblac 1y ago
      Syrians are the second largest group of asylum seekers in Denmark, after Ukrainians. They're almost exclusively war refugees.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      > Refugees go to nearby countries They actually go lots of places. How are there so many refugees in the US (a good thing)? Canada and Mexico aren't places producing a lot of them. It's a major issue of international law, as people who are anti-immigrants try to insist refugees stay in nearby countries.

mmooss 1y ago

It turns out that economic productivity is not tied to ethnicity or where you are from - fundamentally racist notions - but to how productive you are.

nine_k 1y ago
It's not about race, it's about culture and education. For instance, Chinese immigrants are usually an economic boost anywhere they go, due to the can-do attitude and respect for education and business activity in the Chinese culture in general. Also the Chinese immigrants in question, like many others, usually immigrate seeking a better life, it's a strong self-selection filter. Middle Eastern immigrants of last 10-15 years in Europe are refugees, displaced by wars; they did not choose Denmark (or other Western European countries) because they planned to integrate and to prosper there, they ran there to merely stay alive. They need a lot of help adapting. Even if they are very willing to work, they may lack the knowledge required for gainful employment, and there are only so many dish-washing and trash-disposal jobs. Those who adapt can make it big; consider people like Freddie Mercury or Nassim Taleb.
- selimthegrim 1y ago
  Freddie Mercury wasn't of Middle Eastern background.
  - telotortium 1y ago
    And Taleb is a Christian Arab, which are genetically distinct from the majority Muslim Arab population.
    - selimthegrim 1y ago
      Citation needed, this might not be true for non-Maronites (like Taleb) and outside Lebanon.
  - nine_k 1y ago
    The sultanate of Zanzibar is technically closer to Africa than to the Arabian peninsula, it was a remnant of the Omani empire, with very thick Middle Eastern influence, and obviously Muslim culture.
    - selimthegrim 1y ago
      His parents were of Indian Parsi background.
- mmooss 1y ago
  > It's not about race It is about race, and here is a commenter saying it explicitly, while you know others resort to dog whistles and other workarounds. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44091194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44091194 The problem with immigration isn't immigrants, it's racists. Immigration has never caused me any problem at all - it's added a lot to my life and my communities, in fact - and I've lived around many immigrants. > Chinese immigrants are usually an economic boost Chinese immigrants were hated and discriminated against for much of US history, going back over a century. You could hardly pick a worse example for your claim. The US is built by uneducated immigrants - including from China - who came to the land of freedom and opportunity. China was a land of extreme poverty and illiteracy for much of US history (something Western countries had a hand in causing, and I'm very glad for people there that they have so much more prosperity now). (However, the most prosperous Chinese people are in the democratic areas, Taiwan and, until recently, Hong Kong. It's freedom and democracy, not culture and language that matter. Give people freedom and they prosper.) It's all just stuff fabricated by racists to rationalize their prejudices. Look at the horrors Europe has inflicted on itself and the world due to these prejudices and rationalizations - the most destructive events in human history. Enough.
  - ryan93 1y ago
    no white person of means in europe EVER lives around muslim "refugees".
    - mmooss 1y ago
      More racism on their part - that's the problem, as I said. I also very much doubt that is true, but generally people do generally segregate by economic means, and first generation immigrants understandably tend to live in their own communities, everywhere. Where else do you find people to talk to, who understand you; where else do you even find dinner or some decent proper tea? Racism is the problem.
decimalenough 1y ago
Middle Eastern immigrants are not (usually, relatively, on average) unproductive because of their skin color. They're unproductive because they suffer from a large language barrier, tend to have large families that use more government subsidies, are often traumatized by the conditions they escaped, have qualifications that are not recognized in Denmark and have to work menial jobs instead, face racism when they apply for jobs they are qualified for, etc.
- LightBug1 1y ago
  You mean, like any/many immigrant waves? And then their children turn out to be some of the most productive and contributory to a nation (in my experience), even despite some of the headwinds.
  - Bassilisk 1y ago
    Perhaps in the US due to pre-selection, but in Europe the 2nd generation of those MENA migrants frequently becomes an even bigger burden to the host countries due to the former turning to criminal activities or radicalization.
    - LightBug1 1y ago
      "frequently" ... about as useful as my "in my experience", lol Sorry, I don't buy that argument re: second generation. I've lived and seen it. Perhaps my lived experience isn't representative but I don't see second generation citizens turning to crime or radicalisation in huge numbers. I see them at work, and looking after their families. I fear the brush you are using is so broad as to, sorry, be useless.
      - ryan93 1y ago
        https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/nearly-two-thirds-of-convicted-rapists-in-sweden-are-migrants-or- https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/nearly-two-third...
Scarblac 1y ago
It's because the ME immigrants that make it to Denmark are traumatized refugees from war zones, with education that isn't recognized so they can often only do minimum wage work if they work at all. That's not racist, that's a result of laws and treaties.
- account42 1y ago
  There are no refugees coming from ME to Denmark. Refugees go to nearby countries, people who travel halfway around the world are economic migrants.
  - Scarblac 1y ago
    Syrians are the second largest group of asylum seekers in Denmark, after Ukrainians. They're almost exclusively war refugees.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > Refugees go to nearby countries They actually go lots of places. How are there so many refugees in the US (a good thing)? Canada and Mexico aren't places producing a lot of them. It's a major issue of international law, as people who are anti-immigrants try to insist refugees stay in nearby countries.