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But people are living longer, in better health (I think but didn’t verify with data) and entering the workforce later (due to more secondary schooling). Settin

But people are living longer, in better health (I think but didn’t verify with data) and entering the workforce later (due to more secondary schooling). Setting aside the issues of declining birth rate for a minute, this seems like a reasonable adjustment to the other factors?

philjohn 1y ago
It's rising, but much slower than before - and plateaud in the 2010's for a good few years, UK stats - https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/gbr/united-kingdom/life-expectancy https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/gbr/uni...
- lancekey 1y ago
  So since 1950, lifespan has gone up ~14 years in UK. Retirement age has not gone up since it was created in 1940s. Not crazy to raise it a little. Quickly looking at Denmark articles, it seems they’re raising the age to adjust to life expectancy increases as well. I don’t see this a sign of the system failing.
  - holsta 1y ago
    We are not living longer, fewer infants / kids are dying.
    - ant6n 1y ago
      True. The interesting stat would be expected lifetime at retirement age.
      - sgt101 1y ago
        You can find the info here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/datasets/nationallifetablesenglandreferencetables https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... There was a steady rise in life expectancy at retirement age in the UK until 2020, then something happened and it's fallen significantly. My guess is that it will rise rapidly over the next 15 years and this will be regarded as some sort of triumph for the public health system (unless there is another pandemic of course).
    - lancekey 1y ago
      It’s both.
  - edent 1y ago
    That's simply untrue. Since 2010, the retirement age for women has raised from 60 to 65. Bringing it in line with the male retirement age. See https://www.thetimes.com/money-mentor/pensions-retirement/state-pension/state-pension-age https://www.thetimes.com/money-mentor/pensions-retirement/st... The age (for both) is gradually rising to 68. Source https://www.gov.uk/government/news/state-pension-age-review-published https://www.gov.uk/government/news/state-pension-age-review-...
    - lancekey 1y ago
      I didnt have time to write a whole treatise. Yes women’s was brought in line with men’s. I should have said, men’s retirement age has not gone up but said retirement age bc it’s an HN comment, not a published paper. The raise to 68 will happen, but it has not happened yet. So, I think to frame my comment as “simply untrue” is disingenuous at best.
mahkeiro 1y ago
People are living longer (but not really in the US), but the health span is not seeing the same increase unfortunately.
- hbarka 1y ago
  The metric of “living longer” isn’t the same as “life expectancy once you reach the age of 65”, for example. In the US, when someone cites a statistic that our average life span decreased, it’s due to the effects of early-life mortality on the mean. If you make it past 65, it’s a different statistic.
- mistrial9 1y ago
  there is not one USA with respect to these things.. "all people" did not stop living more than 65 years recently
aaomidi 1y ago
So what do we do with all the productivity gains we’ve had?
- Arubis 1y ago
  Give them to the wealthy.
  - rixed 1y ago
    [flagged]
- tmnvix 1y ago
  Take on and service more debt (e.g. larger mortgages). The productivity gains are claimed by creditors (i.e. those with existing capital). At least, that's a possible explanation.
- lancekey 1y ago
  Find jobs we like, with more flexibility and a better work-life balance. Commercialize GLP1s. Spend it on wars.
harimau777 1y ago
Personally, I'm not sure that they are living in better health in the way that I care about. I.e. my goal is to retire when I'm still healthy enough to do things (i.e. travel). Although they are likely healthier than previous generations, most of the 70 years olds I see still aren't healthy enough to travel.
- vladms 1y ago
  Average healthy life years was 71 years in Denmark (source: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/healthy-life-expectancy-at-birth https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/healthy-life-expectancy-a... ). By looking at the map it varies a lot between countries, and I assume between regions and occupations. The policy for retirement age is related to when society sees fit to sustain someone that does not work. I think it has more to do with how the society sees the elders and what it can afford than to the goals of specific individuals.
- brewdad 1y ago
  I had a great grandparent live to 102. 3 of my 4 grandparents lived into their late 80s with the oldest passing a month shy of 90. Even my grandparent who smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day lived to 78. For all of them, their last good year was about year 80. My dad just turned 78 and has really slowed the last 5 years. Longer life says little about quality of life.
- plusmax1 1y ago
  why wait for travel until you are retired? Retirement should not be "the" goal in life. I've been traveling for holidays every year since I was 25 for at least 3 weeks every year, loving it so much. First it was backpacking, now it transitioned into a bit more luxury as I got older. You don't know if you'll be hit by a bus next year, retirement is a silly milestone to focus on.
bgnn 1y ago
True but no matter how healthy one is in their 60s and 70s people's health degrade significantly in their 80s. So, you have then 10 year of healthy life after retirement. There's the flip side if the coin though: old people are healthier in Denmark (vs US for example [1]) due to the social welfare system. Well, that system needs to be funded. With the aging population, the costs are rising but contributions are (relatively) declining. That's why there's a push for higher retirement age. It's either this, or defunding the social welfare programs, or immigration. That last one isn't a viable political option in Denmark at the moment. [1] https://www.euronews.com/health/2025/02/05/older-people-are-more-likely-to-face-serious-heart-problems-in-the-us-than-in-denmark https://www.euronews.com/health/2025/02/05/older-people-are-...
- dottjt 1y ago
  I think what's happening though is that current generations are taking it easier in a lot of ways as a result of having to work more. For example, avoiding senior promotions into management etc.

philjohn 1y ago

It's rising, but much slower than before - and plateaud in the 2010's for a good few years, UK stats - https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/gbr/united-kingdom/life-expectancy https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/gbr/uni...

lancekey 1y ago
So since 1950, lifespan has gone up ~14 years in UK. Retirement age has not gone up since it was created in 1940s. Not crazy to raise it a little. Quickly looking at Denmark articles, it seems they’re raising the age to adjust to life expectancy increases as well. I don’t see this a sign of the system failing.
- holsta 1y ago
  We are not living longer, fewer infants / kids are dying.
  - ant6n 1y ago
    True. The interesting stat would be expected lifetime at retirement age.
    - sgt101 1y ago
      You can find the info here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/datasets/nationallifetablesenglandreferencetables https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde... There was a steady rise in life expectancy at retirement age in the UK until 2020, then something happened and it's fallen significantly. My guess is that it will rise rapidly over the next 15 years and this will be regarded as some sort of triumph for the public health system (unless there is another pandemic of course).
  - lancekey 1y ago
    It’s both.
- edent 1y ago
  That's simply untrue. Since 2010, the retirement age for women has raised from 60 to 65. Bringing it in line with the male retirement age. See https://www.thetimes.com/money-mentor/pensions-retirement/state-pension/state-pension-age https://www.thetimes.com/money-mentor/pensions-retirement/st... The age (for both) is gradually rising to 68. Source https://www.gov.uk/government/news/state-pension-age-review-published https://www.gov.uk/government/news/state-pension-age-review-...
  - lancekey 1y ago
    I didnt have time to write a whole treatise. Yes women’s was brought in line with men’s. I should have said, men’s retirement age has not gone up but said retirement age bc it’s an HN comment, not a published paper. The raise to 68 will happen, but it has not happened yet. So, I think to frame my comment as “simply untrue” is disingenuous at best.

mahkeiro 1y ago

People are living longer (but not really in the US), but the health span is not seeing the same increase unfortunately.

hbarka 1y ago
The metric of “living longer” isn’t the same as “life expectancy once you reach the age of 65”, for example. In the US, when someone cites a statistic that our average life span decreased, it’s due to the effects of early-life mortality on the mean. If you make it past 65, it’s a different statistic.
mistrial9 1y ago
there is not one USA with respect to these things.. "all people" did not stop living more than 65 years recently

aaomidi 1y ago

So what do we do with all the productivity gains we’ve had?

Arubis 1y ago
Give them to the wealthy.
- rixed 1y ago
  [flagged]
tmnvix 1y ago
Take on and service more debt (e.g. larger mortgages). The productivity gains are claimed by creditors (i.e. those with existing capital). At least, that's a possible explanation.
lancekey 1y ago
Find jobs we like, with more flexibility and a better work-life balance. Commercialize GLP1s. Spend it on wars.

harimau777 1y ago

Personally, I'm not sure that they are living in better health in the way that I care about. I.e. my goal is to retire when I'm still healthy enough to do things (i.e. travel). Although they are likely healthier than previous generations, most of the 70 years olds I see still aren't healthy enough to travel.

vladms 1y ago
Average healthy life years was 71 years in Denmark (source: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/healthy-life-expectancy-at-birth https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/healthy-life-expectancy-a... ). By looking at the map it varies a lot between countries, and I assume between regions and occupations. The policy for retirement age is related to when society sees fit to sustain someone that does not work. I think it has more to do with how the society sees the elders and what it can afford than to the goals of specific individuals.
brewdad 1y ago
I had a great grandparent live to 102. 3 of my 4 grandparents lived into their late 80s with the oldest passing a month shy of 90. Even my grandparent who smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day lived to 78. For all of them, their last good year was about year 80. My dad just turned 78 and has really slowed the last 5 years. Longer life says little about quality of life.
plusmax1 1y ago
why wait for travel until you are retired? Retirement should not be "the" goal in life. I've been traveling for holidays every year since I was 25 for at least 3 weeks every year, loving it so much. First it was backpacking, now it transitioned into a bit more luxury as I got older. You don't know if you'll be hit by a bus next year, retirement is a silly milestone to focus on.

bgnn 1y ago

True but no matter how healthy one is in their 60s and 70s people's health degrade significantly in their 80s. So, you have then 10 year of healthy life after retirement. There's the flip side if the coin though: old people are healthier in Denmark (vs US for example [1]) due to the social welfare system. Well, that system needs to be funded. With the aging population, the costs are rising but contributions are (relatively) declining. That's why there's a push for higher retirement age. It's either this, or defunding the social welfare programs, or immigration. That last one isn't a viable political option in Denmark at the moment. [1] https://www.euronews.com/health/2025/02/05/older-people-are-more-likely-to-face-serious-heart-problems-in-the-us-than-in-denmark https://www.euronews.com/health/2025/02/05/older-people-are-...

dottjt 1y ago
I think what's happening though is that current generations are taking it easier in a lot of ways as a result of having to work more. For example, avoiding senior promotions into management etc.