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> I'd like to buy a BYD Electric Car, but apparently the US Government (Biden and Trump Admins) think that is a bad thing too. It's a bad thing if you believe

by janice1999 1y ago

> I'd like to buy a BYD Electric Car, but apparently the US Government (Biden and Trump Admins) think that is a bad thing too. It's a bad thing if you believe China is subsidising BYD and others (including with the use of slave labour) in order to destroy non-Chinese automotive makers by flooding external markets with cheap cars. Add on top the fact that modern EVs are rolling surveillance platforms...

e40 1y ago
I don't understand why this isn't more obvious. I understand why industrialists want us to ignore working conditions in other countries (the extra money goes into their pockets), but why regular folk (which I assume most of us here are) don't care about the conditions of labor in other parts of the world. It baffles me. If it can happen there it can happen here (obviously it is not going to happen here soon, but given the right conditions... and conditions seem to be changing quite fast these days...).
mystified5016 1y ago
Is it destroying a market or is it out-competing? US makers are not at all interested in building EVs that Americans want or need, they only want to build luxury adware platforms. If another country builds an EV that Americans do want, why is it suddenly a bad thing? Is this a capitalist economy where anyone can compete, or is this a communist country where only government blessed companies can compete? It can't be both.
- janice1999 1y ago
  US makers are (or at least were) pivoting to making cheaper EVs. Supply chain constraints during COVID was one of the reasons they were focusing on luxury EVs. >why is it suddenly a bad thing There is no "suddenly". These arguments have existed as long as nation states have. A country does not like it when another country attempts to undermine its companies and manufacturing capacity with unfair competition. Just look at all the tariffs and lawsuits between the US and the EU over state subsidies of airline manufacture over the last decades. It's not a China-only issue and never has been. > Is this a capitalist economy where anyone can compete Capitalist economies are not magical natural occurrences. They result from rules, in this case those agreed between countries. The WTO exists for a reason. State subsidies and a counties degree of protectionism will always play a part in economic discussions.
  - enceladus06 1y ago
    Yes but I want to buy cheap, durable, and reliable EV from China. Ford/GM wants to make expensive, unreliable and then sell "connected car" subscription as well. This is only possible due to political and regulatory capture when they should go bankrupt.
    - enceladus06 1y ago
      Yes let them go bankrupt idc. Then let me buy a BYD or Toyota Hilux with a 4-cylinder diesel engine, and stop with the protectionism.
tzs 1y ago
> Add on top the fact that modern EVs are rolling surveillance platforms... Irrelevant since that is also true of modern non-EVs.

e40 1y ago

I don't understand why this isn't more obvious. I understand why industrialists want us to ignore working conditions in other countries (the extra money goes into their pockets), but why regular folk (which I assume most of us here are) don't care about the conditions of labor in other parts of the world. It baffles me. If it can happen there it can happen here (obviously it is not going to happen here soon, but given the right conditions... and conditions seem to be changing quite fast these days...).

mystified5016 1y ago

Is it destroying a market or is it out-competing? US makers are not at all interested in building EVs that Americans want or need, they only want to build luxury adware platforms. If another country builds an EV that Americans do want, why is it suddenly a bad thing? Is this a capitalist economy where anyone can compete, or is this a communist country where only government blessed companies can compete? It can't be both.

janice1999 1y ago
US makers are (or at least were) pivoting to making cheaper EVs. Supply chain constraints during COVID was one of the reasons they were focusing on luxury EVs. >why is it suddenly a bad thing There is no "suddenly". These arguments have existed as long as nation states have. A country does not like it when another country attempts to undermine its companies and manufacturing capacity with unfair competition. Just look at all the tariffs and lawsuits between the US and the EU over state subsidies of airline manufacture over the last decades. It's not a China-only issue and never has been. > Is this a capitalist economy where anyone can compete Capitalist economies are not magical natural occurrences. They result from rules, in this case those agreed between countries. The WTO exists for a reason. State subsidies and a counties degree of protectionism will always play a part in economic discussions.
- enceladus06 1y ago
  Yes but I want to buy cheap, durable, and reliable EV from China. Ford/GM wants to make expensive, unreliable and then sell "connected car" subscription as well. This is only possible due to political and regulatory capture when they should go bankrupt.
  - enceladus06 1y ago
    Yes let them go bankrupt idc. Then let me buy a BYD or Toyota Hilux with a 4-cylinder diesel engine, and stop with the protectionism.

tzs 1y ago

> Add on top the fact that modern EVs are rolling surveillance platforms... Irrelevant since that is also true of modern non-EVs.