5 ms·

Gloating about hardships was and is a great way to ensure things will get worse for workers as efficiency and automation increases. Another option would be to

Gloating about hardships was and is a great way to ensure things will get worse for workers as efficiency and automation increases. Another option would be to join forces to collectively demand more equitable distribution of the fruits of technological development. Sadly it doesn't seem to be very popular.

wkat4242 1y ago
> Sadly it doesn't seem to be very popular Strange enough the people that have the most to gain from keeping things the same, are really successful at convincing the masses who have the most to benefit from change in this regard to vote against it. https://pjhollis123.medium.com/careful-mate-that-foreigner-wants-your-cookie-aba1c536b0d8 https://pjhollis123.medium.com/careful-mate-that-foreigner-w...
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  Certainly back when I worked in IT, the people I worked with were mostly very much anti-union. I didn't hear much anti immigrant talk back then but I've been retired for a while.
  - jampekka 1y ago
    There has been a lot of anti-H1B talk for a long time. And complaining about work being outsourced to India or where ever.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    I don't really believe in unions either. But I do believe in a good balance between capitalism and socialism (and welfare systems, employee rights etc). I don't believe in the market solving everything. The problem I have with unions is that they can be too unreasonable. They're too much on the other side, they're too hardline just like the ultracapitalists/neoliberals but on the other side. In a good system we wouldn't have to fight for our rights because we'd already have them anyway.
    - closewith 1y ago
      Too unreasonable and yet now the issues warned against by labour movements for decades are coming to pass. You have fallen for capitalist propaganda. Time to re-evaluate.
      - wkat4242 1y ago
        I'm very socialist actually. I just think that with a good socialist government, unions are not needed as such because the national law already protects workers' rights. I find it a bit 'off' that each class of labour has to fight for their own rights separately. That shouldn't be needed (and really isn't, where I live). It also causes a lot of uproar, see France for example where a strike is just tuesday. Employee rights are strong, but the public is heavily impacted all the time. Better to just handle this on the government side. This is why I was a member of the socialist party but not of the union in my workplace (I'm no longer a member because I moved countries and can't vote where I live). Note: I'm not living in the US obviously :) I do say a balance because of course we're not living in a communist state. So even with a socialist government there is still capitalism. Just not unrestrictedly so as it is in the US. I'm not sure how it works in the US but in our company the union is many bitching about stupid stuff like breastfeeding rooms (when there are no women who bring their babies to work anyway - they just work from home after their 6 months maternity leave). All our basic rights are already sorted. We can't work too many hours, we have unlimited sick leave (though of course validated by a doctor for long absences), we're entitled to a lot of money when fired etc. But this is all national law level stuff. Not industry level.
        dragonwriter 1y ago
        > I'm very socialist actually. I just think that with a good socialist government, unions are not needed as such because the national law already protects workers' rights. Having strong and independent unions is how you keep a good socialist government. Almost anytime you hear “With a good government, you don’t need <whatever>”, you are hearing a recipe for guaranteeing that good government is an exceptional, transitory state. If your society isn't prepared for bad government, it will have one sooner than you’d like, and it will be difficult to dislodge it.
chobeat 1y ago
Join tech workers coalition
zaptheimpaler 1y ago
Yes! In a fair world, we would all be very excited about jobs becoming 30% more efficient or fully automated with AI, because that surplus would come back to us. Producing more with less work is a good thing! It's only been distorted to become an economic anxiety become the gains from automation are so unevenly distributed.

wkat4242 1y ago

> Sadly it doesn't seem to be very popular Strange enough the people that have the most to gain from keeping things the same, are really successful at convincing the masses who have the most to benefit from change in this regard to vote against it. https://pjhollis123.medium.com/careful-mate-that-foreigner-wants-your-cookie-aba1c536b0d8 https://pjhollis123.medium.com/careful-mate-that-foreigner-w...

amanaplanacanal 1y ago
Certainly back when I worked in IT, the people I worked with were mostly very much anti-union. I didn't hear much anti immigrant talk back then but I've been retired for a while.
- jampekka 1y ago
  There has been a lot of anti-H1B talk for a long time. And complaining about work being outsourced to India or where ever.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  I don't really believe in unions either. But I do believe in a good balance between capitalism and socialism (and welfare systems, employee rights etc). I don't believe in the market solving everything. The problem I have with unions is that they can be too unreasonable. They're too much on the other side, they're too hardline just like the ultracapitalists/neoliberals but on the other side. In a good system we wouldn't have to fight for our rights because we'd already have them anyway.
  - closewith 1y ago
    Too unreasonable and yet now the issues warned against by labour movements for decades are coming to pass. You have fallen for capitalist propaganda. Time to re-evaluate.
    - wkat4242 1y ago
      I'm very socialist actually. I just think that with a good socialist government, unions are not needed as such because the national law already protects workers' rights. I find it a bit 'off' that each class of labour has to fight for their own rights separately. That shouldn't be needed (and really isn't, where I live). It also causes a lot of uproar, see France for example where a strike is just tuesday. Employee rights are strong, but the public is heavily impacted all the time. Better to just handle this on the government side. This is why I was a member of the socialist party but not of the union in my workplace (I'm no longer a member because I moved countries and can't vote where I live). Note: I'm not living in the US obviously :) I do say a balance because of course we're not living in a communist state. So even with a socialist government there is still capitalism. Just not unrestrictedly so as it is in the US. I'm not sure how it works in the US but in our company the union is many bitching about stupid stuff like breastfeeding rooms (when there are no women who bring their babies to work anyway - they just work from home after their 6 months maternity leave). All our basic rights are already sorted. We can't work too many hours, we have unlimited sick leave (though of course validated by a doctor for long absences), we're entitled to a lot of money when fired etc. But this is all national law level stuff. Not industry level.
      - dragonwriter 1y ago
        > I'm very socialist actually. I just think that with a good socialist government, unions are not needed as such because the national law already protects workers' rights. Having strong and independent unions is how you keep a good socialist government. Almost anytime you hear “With a good government, you don’t need <whatever>”, you are hearing a recipe for guaranteeing that good government is an exceptional, transitory state. If your society isn't prepared for bad government, it will have one sooner than you’d like, and it will be difficult to dislodge it.

chobeat 1y ago

Join tech workers coalition

zaptheimpaler 1y ago

Yes! In a fair world, we would all be very excited about jobs becoming 30% more efficient or fully automated with AI, because that surplus would come back to us. Producing more with less work is a good thing! It's only been distorted to become an economic anxiety become the gains from automation are so unevenly distributed.