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Interesting that they're being described as "abandoned" there. I thought they might be getting sold to locals who have plausible deniability that they're using

Interesting that they're being described as "abandoned" there. I thought they might be getting sold to locals who have plausible deniability that they're using them for construction work. Why abandon a working vehicle? Surely the construction projects on Hydra aren't exclusively worked by end-of-life vehicles. And it's only about 3km from mainland Greece so it can't be prohibitively expensive to ship them back (even if they are end of life, they should have much more scrappage value than the shipping cost).

dylan604 1y ago
It could be a book keeping thing. Sometimes, it works out better by the pencil pushers if something is written off as a loss. Consider the expense of having to send a barge/ship to the island to transport it back from the island to somewhere else. Then they could attempt to sell it. Would that sale be profitable?
- pfdietz 1y ago
  Even if that were the case, wouldn't whoever ended up owning it make a profit by sending it back for scrapping/parting out?
  - dylan604 1y ago
    you have to do the math on shipping costs vs how much can be made. i'd venture its not profitable in a reasonable amount of time. you then have to have someone skilled to part it out. store the pieces. line up buyers. all of that comes at an expense.
    - pfdietz 1y ago
      So, how much does shipping a ton 3 miles by water cost? The scrap value of a vehicle is maybe $200/ton (more if valuable parts can be salvaged.) Shipping by truck in the US costs somewhere around $0.10/ton-mile.
      - williamdclt 1y ago
        In most ports that would be worth it as there’s already established commerce routes that can transport vehicles. But there’s no vehicle-carrying ferry going to hydra. So you’d need to arrange one especially, which probably would cost a ton, certainly several thousands and I’d guess much more
        pfdietz 1y ago
        Or, once sufficient junk has accumulated, a for-purpose boat could come over and transport the lot. Also, there must already be ways of getting garbage and construction debris out. I suspect the best approach would be a boat that would transport the stuff not three miles, but a longer distance to where scrap could be more easily handled. This would amortize loading/unloading costs over more miles. I would not be at all surprised if such centralized waste handling ports already existed; there are lots of islands there generating a constant stream of refuse.
  - HarryHirsch 1y ago
    They haven't done it yet, which would indicate that it's complicated, where is the nearest scrap dealer that would take the stuff? The Eastern Peloponnese is thinly populated, the nearest town is Nauplion with ~ 20 k inhabitants, else there is always Athens. Now you have an interagency coordination problem, Hydra town council would have to get together with its counterpart in Athens, acquire the title, collect them, charter a ferry and lowbed truck at the destination and assemble a crew get rid of the junk. Until sufficient tourists complain it's not going to happen.
Hilift 1y ago
The sentence is unfinished. They are abandoned, and unlike nearly everywhere else, left and not collected. There's probably a daily ferry and/or barge designed in part for this. Some of the vehicles could be sold to at least 10 vendors that would happily collect them. There's only 2,000 people, so maybe a handful of municipal employees. And there's probably four hours of paperwork to dispose of a vehicle. They probably want the original businesses to appear and collect them and pay like 10 years of fines.
- braaaahp 1y ago
  [flagged]
- throw902093290 1y ago
  There are many ferries to Hydra, but none take cars. My guess it is pain in arse to bring car in our out of hydra. Once someone pays arm and leg for transportation, they will keep car there forever. Even if its used for construction once a year. Hydra is normal town with normal needs. And local population of pensioners will not haul shopping, furniture, or building materials on their backs!
analog31 1y ago
Even on the mainland, vehicles and equipment are abandoned. At least in the US, if you drive through the countryside, every vehicle and truck that was ever used by someone is parked somewhere. If you go on a hike, and go through land that was once used for something, you'll find piles of old equipment, vehicles, materials, etc. It's not all that noticeable because there's usually much more land than the amount of stuff piling up. Even in my residential neighborhood, there's probably an inoperable car parked in a driveway every other block. I don't think that things are always a quantum transition from "in use" to "abandoned," but a gradual decline. Stuff is just parked temporarily in case it's needed in the near future, or with the hope of selling it, and then gradually decays to the point of being inoperable. An abandoned car or truck won't just start. If a machine like a bobcat or bulldozer needs to be moved, it may require a running engine and hydraulics. Someone has to know how to get it going. Paying someone to haul it away may be expensive. If it's owned by a business, the ownership may gradually become unknown, especially in an informal economy.

dylan604 1y ago

It could be a book keeping thing. Sometimes, it works out better by the pencil pushers if something is written off as a loss. Consider the expense of having to send a barge/ship to the island to transport it back from the island to somewhere else. Then they could attempt to sell it. Would that sale be profitable?

pfdietz 1y ago
Even if that were the case, wouldn't whoever ended up owning it make a profit by sending it back for scrapping/parting out?
- dylan604 1y ago
  you have to do the math on shipping costs vs how much can be made. i'd venture its not profitable in a reasonable amount of time. you then have to have someone skilled to part it out. store the pieces. line up buyers. all of that comes at an expense.
  - pfdietz 1y ago
    So, how much does shipping a ton 3 miles by water cost? The scrap value of a vehicle is maybe $200/ton (more if valuable parts can be salvaged.) Shipping by truck in the US costs somewhere around $0.10/ton-mile.
    - williamdclt 1y ago
      In most ports that would be worth it as there’s already established commerce routes that can transport vehicles. But there’s no vehicle-carrying ferry going to hydra. So you’d need to arrange one especially, which probably would cost a ton, certainly several thousands and I’d guess much more
      - pfdietz 1y ago
        Or, once sufficient junk has accumulated, a for-purpose boat could come over and transport the lot. Also, there must already be ways of getting garbage and construction debris out. I suspect the best approach would be a boat that would transport the stuff not three miles, but a longer distance to where scrap could be more easily handled. This would amortize loading/unloading costs over more miles. I would not be at all surprised if such centralized waste handling ports already existed; there are lots of islands there generating a constant stream of refuse.
- HarryHirsch 1y ago
  They haven't done it yet, which would indicate that it's complicated, where is the nearest scrap dealer that would take the stuff? The Eastern Peloponnese is thinly populated, the nearest town is Nauplion with ~ 20 k inhabitants, else there is always Athens. Now you have an interagency coordination problem, Hydra town council would have to get together with its counterpart in Athens, acquire the title, collect them, charter a ferry and lowbed truck at the destination and assemble a crew get rid of the junk. Until sufficient tourists complain it's not going to happen.

Hilift 1y ago

The sentence is unfinished. They are abandoned, and unlike nearly everywhere else, left and not collected. There's probably a daily ferry and/or barge designed in part for this. Some of the vehicles could be sold to at least 10 vendors that would happily collect them. There's only 2,000 people, so maybe a handful of municipal employees. And there's probably four hours of paperwork to dispose of a vehicle. They probably want the original businesses to appear and collect them and pay like 10 years of fines.

braaaahp 1y ago
[flagged]
throw902093290 1y ago
There are many ferries to Hydra, but none take cars. My guess it is pain in arse to bring car in our out of hydra. Once someone pays arm and leg for transportation, they will keep car there forever. Even if its used for construction once a year. Hydra is normal town with normal needs. And local population of pensioners will not haul shopping, furniture, or building materials on their backs!

analog31 1y ago

Even on the mainland, vehicles and equipment are abandoned. At least in the US, if you drive through the countryside, every vehicle and truck that was ever used by someone is parked somewhere. If you go on a hike, and go through land that was once used for something, you'll find piles of old equipment, vehicles, materials, etc. It's not all that noticeable because there's usually much more land than the amount of stuff piling up. Even in my residential neighborhood, there's probably an inoperable car parked in a driveway every other block. I don't think that things are always a quantum transition from "in use" to "abandoned," but a gradual decline. Stuff is just parked temporarily in case it's needed in the near future, or with the hope of selling it, and then gradually decays to the point of being inoperable. An abandoned car or truck won't just start. If a machine like a bobcat or bulldozer needs to be moved, it may require a running engine and hydraulics. Someone has to know how to get it going. Paying someone to haul it away may be expensive. If it's owned by a business, the ownership may gradually become unknown, especially in an informal economy.