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> There have even been socio-political theories claiming that British rule created the Indian caste system. Can't say I ever ran across that in any serious con
by defrost 1y ago
> There have even been socio-political theories claiming that British rule created the Indian caste system.
Can't say I ever ran across that in any serious context .. sounds more than a little fringe given the history of such systems pre-dating British rule.
> Circa 2000, the idea that Rwandan tribal divisions were actually created by colonial era racism.
More amplified by lingering colonial and post colonial influences .. but not created.
> No great power drew lines in Yugoslavia, Cyprus or Turkey-Greece. Conflict and expulsion occurred regardless.
The claim isn't that all divisions are created by great powers imposing arbitrary boundaries on third parties, the claim is that certain particular actions of that type had a significant impact on specific conflicts.
We appear to agree that exact national boundaries (and passports also ?) are a relatively recent occurrence in world history, things that have appeared more and more and carried greater and greater weight in the past few hundred years.
> The idea that colonial era sins created postcolonial strife is national-liberal cope,
Interesting. Not a view held by the now 90+ year old that taught me Ham Radio, handled antipodean comms for NASA back in the day, defused lingering aerial mines in the Boy Scouts post (and during) WWII and fought (on the British Colonial side) in the Mau Mau uprising .. his opinion was that colonial rule left a long shadow on many African former colonies.
Mind you, his opinion came from first hand experience rather than a modern anti-woke perspective.
Again, the claim is not that colonialism was the root of all evil that followed .. that's as ridiculous as the notion that colonial era sins created absolutely zero postcolonial issues in all former colonies.
> Take {X} and {Y} as examples.
Why not the Congo's and Vietnam? As there is no claim of one sweeping rule, specific "counter examples" (if applicable) neither prove nor refulte the notion that colonialism created issues that varied in impact and magnitude in different parts of the world.
- sieve 1y ago> Can't say I ever ran across that in any serious context It exists. Invaders do not necessarily invent things out of whole cloth. You widen existing fissures in society in order to control it. The gotra-jaati-varna system has a complex history but the caste system in place for the past century or so in Indian society and politics is a gift of the British. They were the ones who started recording it during the census. A 2011 census found that people claim to belong to 4,673,034 different castes/sub-castes/gotras/clans.[1] Which is absolute insanity. Castes that are considered to be "upper" in one district/state move down the ladder in other districts/states. But all this complexity is thrown out of the window in ideological discussions. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Socio_Economic_and_Caste_Census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Socio_Economic_and_Caste_...
- defrost 1y ago> It exists. Sure, no disagreement from me on that. Flat Earth, Young Earth, Lysenkoism, Vaccines causing Autism, Alien Lizard People wearing Human Skin, et al are all examples of other beliefs that exist, have had books devoted to them, have true believers, etc. These are also things that I don't come across in serious contexts. > Invaders do not necessarily invent things out of whole cloth. You widen existing fissures in society in order to control it. Sure, something seen in history often enough. This supports the notion of a caste system existing prior to the British. > They were the ones who started recording it during the census. If it didn't exist prior to the British "recording it during census" then what was it they were recording? Something they made up whole that never existed prior? > A 2011 census found that people claim to belong to 4,673,034 different castes/sub-castes/gotras/clans. .. and this was the gift of the British? Sounds more like a home grown Indian expansion.
- netcan 1y agoNot like flat earth. Something that would be discussed in academic contexts and the intellectual mainstream. Articles of the last decade or two tend to be weaker in their claim, salvaging parts of the stronger version from the mid-century. The debate has since subsided.
- netcan 1y agoI was speaking to the content of the article, and making a (relatively) specific point in that context: The pitfalls which may beset a democracy and the involvement of armies therein.