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> neither party has offered suitable presidential candidates in the last 3 elections Were we witnessing the same elections? Because I saw one side of the ballo

> neither party has offered suitable presidential candidates in the last 3 elections Were we witnessing the same elections? Because I saw one side of the ballot as suitable 3/3 times, and the other side… not event close. Were they perfect, no, but the difference in quality has been baffling 3/3 times. The actual reality is that many people have a belief system that is wildly different than their fellow countrymen. And whew, what a set of beliefs to act upon and force upon the world.

andrepd 1y ago
You cannot get people to vote on the "least bad" option, I thought this much at least has been made clear in the last decade. The enthusiasm will be so low that you cannot get enough turnout to beat the hard-line fans of the other side. Please present good candidates with a progressive program and an inspirational personal charisma and people will vote for them over the fascist. Does anyone have a sliver of a doubt that an Obama would beat Trump with a leg tied behind his back?
- intended 1y ago
  This is not true, anymore, and we have the data to show it. The structrural issues with the information and news market in America (and most western democracies) has created a systemic issue, which has changed what makes a "good" or "efficient" candidate. One team has to put out someone like Obama, and the other team can put up someone like Trump who can promise the moon is made of green cheese, and be lauded as a truth teller. Working on facts, having them verified, building policy is not a competitive advantage, versus being able to pick a narrative and create facts that your voters want to hear.
  - andrepd 1y ago
    What's there to stop left-wing populists? Bernie Sanders is both more popular and less unpopular than Trump. Apparently he can (i) have principles, (ii) have a numbers-based program of concrete measures and (iii) be an effective communicator, all at the same time. Instead we field unlikeable Clinton, borderline senile Biden, replace him at the 11th hour with unremarkable and un-primaried Harris... Then we wonder how even a dumbfuck like Trump can beat them.
    - intended 1y ago
      Someone who doesn’t even agree reality is reality won. A system that is able to prop up an alternate reality, won. I like Bernie, I think he has the right attitude and voice to fight this kind of media battle. The debate on Bernie vs Clinton is fundamentally reorganizing deck chairs on the titanic. Any Democrat candidate is playing with their hands tied behind their back, even when they facts, policy, research, effort, and genuine ability on their side. Fixing the dem primary process - very much yes. Recognize that the playing field itself is prejudiced.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      > What's there to stop left-wing populists? They're not divisive enough. Not nearly enough racism. Populism works because you need to create an enemy within that will cause your following, the majority, to feel as though they are persecuted. As though they are victims. This was pretty easy to do with white conservatives, the majority, because you can just tell them brown people are stealing their money and causing crime and drugs or whatever. Oh, and also woke, because women on TV. It's a lot harder to do with the left. I mean, who do you point to? The bourgeoisie, typically, but uh oh - they own everything. They fund your campaign, and your news. So... who is going to spread your populist messaging? That's, like, the most important part of populism. That's why Radio started WWII. Also, in the US we have a culture of rampant individualism. We don't hate the bourgeoisie here because we all have a delusion that we're just temporary poor, not systemically. One day we will be millionaires, so we can't target them! That's us! All made up of course, all propaganda, but ultimately still a huge challenge someone like Sanders needs to overcome.
AngryData 1y ago
Saying they weren't perfect is still elevating Harris considerably above what many people saw her as in my opinion. The people who want police reform or support the defund police movement aren't enthusiastic about electing a hard-ass prosecutor. People who have no investment portfolios don't care about the stock market doing alright. People who care about social services don't like someone who is supported by and courting rightwing personalities. And progressives don't want "nothing would fundamentally change" after watching little substantial changes or reforms over the last 2+ decades while many people are barely hanging on by their fingertips. Someone making $100K+ in a prosperous urban area might not see those things as too big of a problem. But someone making the median US wage or less while home prices continue to rise and police departments extort locals and basic education standards fall while secondary education prices rise have a big problem both for themselves and their children. I am not surprised people weren't enthusiastic voters, because many saw it as lose-lose. When people are offered either a slow death or a fast death, many will refuse to choose at all.
FridayoLeary 1y ago
This is exactly why the democrats are in crisis, they refuse to look at themselves in a mirror. Harris was completely unsuitable she was soundly rejected for her personality and politics. She gave no compelling argument for why voters should choose her beyond the fact that she was not Trump. She was also badly let down by the Democrat party who rushed her on as an 11th hour replacement, and the Biden administration which gave her no opportunity to come to the public's attention over 4 years. Biden.... He was more or less a decent person, but sadly he was mentally unfit for the job. Especially for the last 2 years the world witnessed the painful cognitive decline of an elderly gentleman. Nor did they appreciate the gaslighting by the administration, and media, telling them that Biden was fine when he obviously was not. Hilary..... I can't remember what was wrong with her, maybe it was a complete lack of charisma, i dont know. Either way she was a mediocre choice at best.

andrepd 1y ago

You cannot get people to vote on the "least bad" option, I thought this much at least has been made clear in the last decade. The enthusiasm will be so low that you cannot get enough turnout to beat the hard-line fans of the other side. Please present good candidates with a progressive program and an inspirational personal charisma and people will vote for them over the fascist. Does anyone have a sliver of a doubt that an Obama would beat Trump with a leg tied behind his back?

intended 1y ago
This is not true, anymore, and we have the data to show it. The structrural issues with the information and news market in America (and most western democracies) has created a systemic issue, which has changed what makes a "good" or "efficient" candidate. One team has to put out someone like Obama, and the other team can put up someone like Trump who can promise the moon is made of green cheese, and be lauded as a truth teller. Working on facts, having them verified, building policy is not a competitive advantage, versus being able to pick a narrative and create facts that your voters want to hear.
- andrepd 1y ago
  What's there to stop left-wing populists? Bernie Sanders is both more popular and less unpopular than Trump. Apparently he can (i) have principles, (ii) have a numbers-based program of concrete measures and (iii) be an effective communicator, all at the same time. Instead we field unlikeable Clinton, borderline senile Biden, replace him at the 11th hour with unremarkable and un-primaried Harris... Then we wonder how even a dumbfuck like Trump can beat them.
  - intended 1y ago
    Someone who doesn’t even agree reality is reality won. A system that is able to prop up an alternate reality, won. I like Bernie, I think he has the right attitude and voice to fight this kind of media battle. The debate on Bernie vs Clinton is fundamentally reorganizing deck chairs on the titanic. Any Democrat candidate is playing with their hands tied behind their back, even when they facts, policy, research, effort, and genuine ability on their side. Fixing the dem primary process - very much yes. Recognize that the playing field itself is prejudiced.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    > What's there to stop left-wing populists? They're not divisive enough. Not nearly enough racism. Populism works because you need to create an enemy within that will cause your following, the majority, to feel as though they are persecuted. As though they are victims. This was pretty easy to do with white conservatives, the majority, because you can just tell them brown people are stealing their money and causing crime and drugs or whatever. Oh, and also woke, because women on TV. It's a lot harder to do with the left. I mean, who do you point to? The bourgeoisie, typically, but uh oh - they own everything. They fund your campaign, and your news. So... who is going to spread your populist messaging? That's, like, the most important part of populism. That's why Radio started WWII. Also, in the US we have a culture of rampant individualism. We don't hate the bourgeoisie here because we all have a delusion that we're just temporary poor, not systemically. One day we will be millionaires, so we can't target them! That's us! All made up of course, all propaganda, but ultimately still a huge challenge someone like Sanders needs to overcome.

AngryData 1y ago

Saying they weren't perfect is still elevating Harris considerably above what many people saw her as in my opinion. The people who want police reform or support the defund police movement aren't enthusiastic about electing a hard-ass prosecutor. People who have no investment portfolios don't care about the stock market doing alright. People who care about social services don't like someone who is supported by and courting rightwing personalities. And progressives don't want "nothing would fundamentally change" after watching little substantial changes or reforms over the last 2+ decades while many people are barely hanging on by their fingertips. Someone making $100K+ in a prosperous urban area might not see those things as too big of a problem. But someone making the median US wage or less while home prices continue to rise and police departments extort locals and basic education standards fall while secondary education prices rise have a big problem both for themselves and their children. I am not surprised people weren't enthusiastic voters, because many saw it as lose-lose. When people are offered either a slow death or a fast death, many will refuse to choose at all.

FridayoLeary 1y ago

This is exactly why the democrats are in crisis, they refuse to look at themselves in a mirror. Harris was completely unsuitable she was soundly rejected for her personality and politics. She gave no compelling argument for why voters should choose her beyond the fact that she was not Trump. She was also badly let down by the Democrat party who rushed her on as an 11th hour replacement, and the Biden administration which gave her no opportunity to come to the public's attention over 4 years. Biden.... He was more or less a decent person, but sadly he was mentally unfit for the job. Especially for the last 2 years the world witnessed the painful cognitive decline of an elderly gentleman. Nor did they appreciate the gaslighting by the administration, and media, telling them that Biden was fine when he obviously was not. Hilary..... I can't remember what was wrong with her, maybe it was a complete lack of charisma, i dont know. Either way she was a mediocre choice at best.