4 ms·

Don't forget that WinRAR comes from 90s eastern European/xUSSR cultural background, where nobody paid for IP, for something that could be copied. Nobody would u

by zerr 1y ago

Don't forget that WinRAR comes from 90s eastern European/xUSSR cultural background, where nobody paid for IP, for something that could be copied. Nobody would use it otherwise. I'm pretty sure even the authors used "pirated" copies of OS/compilers to produce WinRAR.

einpoklum 1y ago
> European/xUSSR cultural background, where nobody paid for IP, for something that could be copied Isn't that more of the global culture? I mean, ok, not in business environments, but for most people around the world? Only a small fraction of people can afford buying software to any significant extent.
- Barrin92 1y ago
  On the consumer side it's definitely global, but on the productive side it's somewhat unique. Eastern Europe had an odd combination of having a lot of cracked programmers and scientific culture combined with really crappy economics, so you had a lot of illicit, hacky solutions at a surprisingly high and professional level. Take Sci-Hub for example. That you have a Soviet Kazakh girl who had been coding from ten years old start a platform like this because she was broke and it's still going is a very stereotypical EE story. Places in the USSR or adjacent Soviet sphere, like Bulgaria, which had a very strong computer industry and technical culture but also were isolated from the West had this weird combination of high tech, communist or academic ethos and improvised solutions, that didn't really happen in a lot of other places. Probably accounts for the concentration of pretty sophisticated cybercrime in the region these days too.
  - einpoklum 1y ago
    I'm rooting for Bulgaria then :-) Also for Alexandra Elbakyan of course: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Elbakyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Elbakyan
pjmlp 1y ago
You mean like on HN, a site initially for startups, where every single time there is a post about some tool with payment, there are enough comments about free beer clones? Because why pay for the work of others, when only we matter. As someone from southern Europe, where there was hardly any original software being sold during 1980's and 1990's, one thing I gladly do today is to pay for the tools I use in production. Be it via donations, buying books from key people on the ecosystem, or actually getting a licence.
- squigz 1y ago
  I'm confused - are you upset that people offer free alternatives to software, or that people opt to choose those, or that people share links to those?
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    I am upset people about the attitude in general, especially when they feel entitled to get a salary and are pretty much capable of owning expensive fruity hardware. Then every couple of months later everyone is complaining there is no money in FOSS, that there are too many subscription fatigue, walled guardens and what not. Of course they are, there is no other way to make money from trying to sell software if it doesn't come with a ball and chain, apparently.
  - hulitu 1y ago
    Piracy is one of the things that made Windows the dominant OS. I: Linux is free, a friend: so is also Windows
- anthk 1y ago
  I prefer to buy books than software, especially from T3X (Zenlisp, T3XForth, Klong...) and the Eforth+Subleq guy. The software it's libre licensed but the knowledge isn't, even if I have the documents right here, a good book to introduce me on K/Klang it's invaluable.
- zerr 1y ago
  It's different from HN, because back than e.g. a license of Visual Studio could easily cost as much as an annual income of a person in some/many countries.
anthk 1y ago
And Western European too. Just ask about Italy, Spain, France in the 90's... Companies did for working environments, with big software from AutoCAD and such, but no one paid it for learning purposes.
- diggan 1y ago
  > And Western European too. Just ask about Italy, Spain, France in the 90's... And Sweden and... I'm starting to think this was worldwide, or at least "anywhere-outside-the-US". Many memories of me and friends hanging out on DC++, using cracked applications wherever we could, and most people around me did the same too.
  - eps 1y ago
    > And Sweden Did you guys have dedicated open-air markets selling CDs with "software collections", "Windows essentials", "The best of Adobe" for $2 ... ? I remember visiting one in Moscow and it was wild. Every piece of software, including like Oracle and SAP ... lol. All for peanuts.
    - diggan 1y ago
      Not that I'm aware of, but I also grew up in the 90s on a island with 700 inhabitants, so not exactly a good representation :) We were mostly sharing stuff once a quarter on LAN parties. But I do remember visiting either Turkey or Bulgaria in the early 2000s with my mom, and coming across one of those markets, and had a blast buying cracked C&C Generals for dirt cheap, together with a bunch of PS2 games I couldn't actually run on my non-cracked PS2 :D
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      In Portugual yes, you could easily find shops close by to universtities with folders containing endless lists of software, it was a matter to place your order and come back to pick up it later on. During the 8 bit days all tapes were clearly copied, many of them even had B&W copies of the instructions, clearly cutted out with scissors. However this is all gone, after our involvement into EU all these kind of stuff started to be cracked down. It is still around if you look for it, e.g. cracked game consoles and cable TV boxes, but it will be clearly taken care of if found by authorities.

by zerr 1y ago

einpoklum 1y ago

> European/xUSSR cultural background, where nobody paid for IP, for something that could be copied Isn't that more of the global culture? I mean, ok, not in business environments, but for most people around the world? Only a small fraction of people can afford buying software to any significant extent.

Barrin92 1y ago
On the consumer side it's definitely global, but on the productive side it's somewhat unique. Eastern Europe had an odd combination of having a lot of cracked programmers and scientific culture combined with really crappy economics, so you had a lot of illicit, hacky solutions at a surprisingly high and professional level. Take Sci-Hub for example. That you have a Soviet Kazakh girl who had been coding from ten years old start a platform like this because she was broke and it's still going is a very stereotypical EE story. Places in the USSR or adjacent Soviet sphere, like Bulgaria, which had a very strong computer industry and technical culture but also were isolated from the West had this weird combination of high tech, communist or academic ethos and improvised solutions, that didn't really happen in a lot of other places. Probably accounts for the concentration of pretty sophisticated cybercrime in the region these days too.
- einpoklum 1y ago
  I'm rooting for Bulgaria then :-) Also for Alexandra Elbakyan of course: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Elbakyan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Elbakyan

pjmlp 1y ago

You mean like on HN, a site initially for startups, where every single time there is a post about some tool with payment, there are enough comments about free beer clones? Because why pay for the work of others, when only we matter. As someone from southern Europe, where there was hardly any original software being sold during 1980's and 1990's, one thing I gladly do today is to pay for the tools I use in production. Be it via donations, buying books from key people on the ecosystem, or actually getting a licence.

squigz 1y ago
I'm confused - are you upset that people offer free alternatives to software, or that people opt to choose those, or that people share links to those?
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I am upset people about the attitude in general, especially when they feel entitled to get a salary and are pretty much capable of owning expensive fruity hardware. Then every couple of months later everyone is complaining there is no money in FOSS, that there are too many subscription fatigue, walled guardens and what not. Of course they are, there is no other way to make money from trying to sell software if it doesn't come with a ball and chain, apparently.
- hulitu 1y ago
  Piracy is one of the things that made Windows the dominant OS. I: Linux is free, a friend: so is also Windows
anthk 1y ago
I prefer to buy books than software, especially from T3X (Zenlisp, T3XForth, Klong...) and the Eforth+Subleq guy. The software it's libre licensed but the knowledge isn't, even if I have the documents right here, a good book to introduce me on K/Klang it's invaluable.
zerr 1y ago
It's different from HN, because back than e.g. a license of Visual Studio could easily cost as much as an annual income of a person in some/many countries.

anthk 1y ago

And Western European too. Just ask about Italy, Spain, France in the 90's... Companies did for working environments, with big software from AutoCAD and such, but no one paid it for learning purposes.

diggan 1y ago
> And Western European too. Just ask about Italy, Spain, France in the 90's... And Sweden and... I'm starting to think this was worldwide, or at least "anywhere-outside-the-US". Many memories of me and friends hanging out on DC++, using cracked applications wherever we could, and most people around me did the same too.
- eps 1y ago
  > And Sweden Did you guys have dedicated open-air markets selling CDs with "software collections", "Windows essentials", "The best of Adobe" for $2 ... ? I remember visiting one in Moscow and it was wild. Every piece of software, including like Oracle and SAP ... lol. All for peanuts.
  - diggan 1y ago
    Not that I'm aware of, but I also grew up in the 90s on a island with 700 inhabitants, so not exactly a good representation :) We were mostly sharing stuff once a quarter on LAN parties. But I do remember visiting either Turkey or Bulgaria in the early 2000s with my mom, and coming across one of those markets, and had a blast buying cracked C&C Generals for dirt cheap, together with a bunch of PS2 games I couldn't actually run on my non-cracked PS2 :D
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    In Portugual yes, you could easily find shops close by to universtities with folders containing endless lists of software, it was a matter to place your order and come back to pick up it later on. During the 8 bit days all tapes were clearly copied, many of them even had B&W copies of the instructions, clearly cutted out with scissors. However this is all gone, after our involvement into EU all these kind of stuff started to be cracked down. It is still around if you look for it, e.g. cracked game consoles and cable TV boxes, but it will be clearly taken care of if found by authorities.