4 ms·

This will achieve 3 things: 1. No reduction in crime 2. A huge chilling effect on the innocent population, further subduing people and paving the way for more

This will achieve 3 things: 1. No reduction in crime 2. A huge chilling effect on the innocent population, further subduing people and paving the way for more authoritarianism. 3. Large amounts of profit for a private company

smegma2 1y ago
How would it chill things that aren’t crimes without deterring actual crimes? This seems like a convenient set of assertions if you’re a priori against surveillance. You’re also missing the aspect of catching crime rather than deterring it.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  The NYPD have used surveillance footage to go after people at protests before, and even people who proveably were just in the vicinity of a protest, but otherwise not participating. Frequently they issue basically bullshit tickets after the fact, things like blocking the sidewalk or breaking curfew after detaining protesters. Do you really think there aren’t police forces that will use this in the furtherance of political goals? https://apnews.com/article/nypd-george-floyd-protests-settlement-kettling-2b8c40a36e2195b9a4b33fa2efaccf0a https://apnews.com/article/nypd-george-floyd-protests-settle... https://www.nyclu.org/press-release/face-lawsuit-nypd-ends-routine-videotaping-protestors https://www.nyclu.org/press-release/face-lawsuit-nypd-ends-r...
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 1y ago
Perhaps not coincidentally, that's the same thing that generally happens with gun control laws. They're all built on a flawed principle - that criminals don't have and will not use workarounds. In reality, only law-abiding people have no workarounds.
- latentsea 1y ago
  Well... as someone living in a country with strict gun control laws who marvels at the dumb shit that goes on in America, I can say for certain that at least here the average run of the mill crazies don't have access to firearms and thank bloody goodness.
Symbiote 1y ago
I don't like these cameras, but it's worth noting they have had some use: > The Met arrested 587 people in 2024 with the assistance of the live facial recognition cameras of which 424 were charged with offences. Of those arrested, 58 were registered sex offenders in serious breach of their conditions and 38 have been charged.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  How many people were tracked how many times to achieve that result? How many of those arrests were possible ONLY by the use of these cameras? The denominator very much matters here.
  - Symbiote 1y ago
    Absolutely, so that needs to be the discussion — a claim that the cameras achieve nothing isn't correct and would be ignored by politicians etc.
- deleted 1y ago
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cal85 1y ago
Your chilling effect argument (2) is important, and it would be much stronger if it wasn’t sandwiched between a dubious assertion (1) and an irrelevant point (3).
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

smegma2 1y ago

How would it chill things that aren’t crimes without deterring actual crimes? This seems like a convenient set of assertions if you’re a priori against surveillance. You’re also missing the aspect of catching crime rather than deterring it.

dghlsakjg 1y ago
The NYPD have used surveillance footage to go after people at protests before, and even people who proveably were just in the vicinity of a protest, but otherwise not participating. Frequently they issue basically bullshit tickets after the fact, things like blocking the sidewalk or breaking curfew after detaining protesters. Do you really think there aren’t police forces that will use this in the furtherance of political goals? https://apnews.com/article/nypd-george-floyd-protests-settlement-kettling-2b8c40a36e2195b9a4b33fa2efaccf0a https://apnews.com/article/nypd-george-floyd-protests-settle... https://www.nyclu.org/press-release/face-lawsuit-nypd-ends-routine-videotaping-protestors https://www.nyclu.org/press-release/face-lawsuit-nypd-ends-r...

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 1y ago

Perhaps not coincidentally, that's the same thing that generally happens with gun control laws. They're all built on a flawed principle - that criminals don't have and will not use workarounds. In reality, only law-abiding people have no workarounds.

latentsea 1y ago
Well... as someone living in a country with strict gun control laws who marvels at the dumb shit that goes on in America, I can say for certain that at least here the average run of the mill crazies don't have access to firearms and thank bloody goodness.

Symbiote 1y ago

I don't like these cameras, but it's worth noting they have had some use: > The Met arrested 587 people in 2024 with the assistance of the live facial recognition cameras of which 424 were charged with offences. Of those arrested, 58 were registered sex offenders in serious breach of their conditions and 38 have been charged.

dghlsakjg 1y ago
How many people were tracked how many times to achieve that result? How many of those arrests were possible ONLY by the use of these cameras? The denominator very much matters here.
- Symbiote 1y ago
  Absolutely, so that needs to be the discussion — a claim that the cameras achieve nothing isn't correct and would be ignored by politicians etc.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

cal85 1y ago

Your chilling effect argument (2) is important, and it would be much stronger if it wasn’t sandwiched between a dubious assertion (1) and an irrelevant point (3).

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]