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What are the incentives for sales for allowing you to do that? What incentives do people in agile or product development or management have to let developers pa

by ivape 1y ago

What are the incentives for sales for allowing you to do that? What incentives do people in agile or product development or management have to let developers partake? There's nothing to gain and everything to lose. See, I would love to live in Disneyworld too. The only lesson to be learned from all of this is when you build your next company, don't allow these people in. I'll keep beating that drum to eternity, because I saw first-hand how the work of tech people is leeched off by so many.

neilv 1y ago
In an early startup, there shouldn't be fiefdoms nor (intra-company) empire building. Everyone should be focused on the shared goal of the startup being successful. What you're working on is triaged constantly, with everyone contributing what they can, learning as necessary. Everybody wins, or everybody loses. And if you don't work together as a team, it's probably the latter. (These are not just empty platitudes. For example, when I say everybody wins, that means I expect everyone to have meaningful equity shares -- not a successful exit makes the founders filthy rich, while everyone else gets a small consolation prize for contributing.) Behind the anecdote, there were unusual and complicated reasons that someone felt and did some things as they did. I tried to carve out a standalone piece for HN, without getting into the more sensitive and irrelevant stuff.
- mystified5016 1y ago
  Anecdotally this rings true. I'm currently watching a CEO destroy their startup by trying to build an empire in a team of 15, while everyone else just wants to make the company work together. No investor ever speaks to staff, nobody but CEO is ever allowed to pitch, or even be present at a pitch. All cofounders and most staff have quit because it's so ridiculous to try and rule over such a small team
recursivegirth 1y ago
Understanding this isn't necessarily my audience, I am not a startup, instead a freelance consultant. I could call it a startup, but that would be stretch, and I am not interested in VC funding. If you don't value your developers perspective in the sales cycle, you are fundamentally doing something wrong. Developer's don't necessarily hold more product knowledge than anyone else, but they sure as shit can tell you how your company can make an extra 100k on a sale by just adding 10 more lines of code. Sales are incentivized to sell, developers are incentivized to provide impact. Include them.
specialist 1y ago
I honestly can't answer your questions. I can say, from experience: 1. Everything gets better the more technical people are involved with customers. Sales, biz dev, tech supp, trade shows, etc. Probably not as the point person, probably not solo, but mosdef involved. And not every tech has the aptitude, or desire, to be customer facing. YMMV. Still, conversations are shorter, more productive. Customers respond very well. It's been a huge win-win, every time. 2. It's always been hard to convince (commission driven) sales people to loop in techs. It's two separate cultures. eg Upon success, sales person gets a new Porsche and the tech gets more work. Which causes resentment. I don't begrudge high rewards for sales (it's a tough gig). But some perks for the grunts would be nice too. Just saying.
- gnuser 1y ago
  When you've been saving the entire company on the reg and get a 1k Christmas bonus and the sales guy gets your entire salary as a bonus, yeah, it causes some fucking resentment!

by ivape 1y ago

neilv 1y ago

In an early startup, there shouldn't be fiefdoms nor (intra-company) empire building. Everyone should be focused on the shared goal of the startup being successful. What you're working on is triaged constantly, with everyone contributing what they can, learning as necessary. Everybody wins, or everybody loses. And if you don't work together as a team, it's probably the latter. (These are not just empty platitudes. For example, when I say everybody wins, that means I expect everyone to have meaningful equity shares -- not a successful exit makes the founders filthy rich, while everyone else gets a small consolation prize for contributing.) Behind the anecdote, there were unusual and complicated reasons that someone felt and did some things as they did. I tried to carve out a standalone piece for HN, without getting into the more sensitive and irrelevant stuff.

mystified5016 1y ago
Anecdotally this rings true. I'm currently watching a CEO destroy their startup by trying to build an empire in a team of 15, while everyone else just wants to make the company work together. No investor ever speaks to staff, nobody but CEO is ever allowed to pitch, or even be present at a pitch. All cofounders and most staff have quit because it's so ridiculous to try and rule over such a small team

recursivegirth 1y ago

Understanding this isn't necessarily my audience, I am not a startup, instead a freelance consultant. I could call it a startup, but that would be stretch, and I am not interested in VC funding. If you don't value your developers perspective in the sales cycle, you are fundamentally doing something wrong. Developer's don't necessarily hold more product knowledge than anyone else, but they sure as shit can tell you how your company can make an extra 100k on a sale by just adding 10 more lines of code. Sales are incentivized to sell, developers are incentivized to provide impact. Include them.

specialist 1y ago

I honestly can't answer your questions. I can say, from experience: 1. Everything gets better the more technical people are involved with customers. Sales, biz dev, tech supp, trade shows, etc. Probably not as the point person, probably not solo, but mosdef involved. And not every tech has the aptitude, or desire, to be customer facing. YMMV. Still, conversations are shorter, more productive. Customers respond very well. It's been a huge win-win, every time. 2. It's always been hard to convince (commission driven) sales people to loop in techs. It's two separate cultures. eg Upon success, sales person gets a new Porsche and the tech gets more work. Which causes resentment. I don't begrudge high rewards for sales (it's a tough gig). But some perks for the grunts would be nice too. Just saying.

gnuser 1y ago
When you've been saving the entire company on the reg and get a 1k Christmas bonus and the sales guy gets your entire salary as a bonus, yeah, it causes some fucking resentment!