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I’m the same, except the opposite - I don’t understand people who want it there permanently, instead of gracefully hiding when not needed. I think the lesson h

I’m the same, except the opposite - I don’t understand people who want it there permanently, instead of gracefully hiding when not needed. I think the lesson here is people have different desires and priorities, and that’s ok.

Reasoning 1y ago
I don't have a strong preference either way but the argument is the scrollbar isn't just for moving your position on the page but also for communicating to the user where they are on the page. If you hide it you're removing half it's functionality.
mixmastamyk 1y ago
Traditional scrollbars always went away when they weren't needed. The problem now is going away when they are.
- kbolino 1y ago
  I don't think this is correct. I distinctly remember some scroll-enabled UI elements on Windows displaying a completely greyed out scrollbar when the content wasn't actually scrollable. Indeed, I can verify this today with PUTTYGEN.EXE even on Windows 11, where if I generate an RSA-2048 key there is an active scrollbar, while if I generate an Ed25519 key which is 1/8 the size, there is a greyed out scrollbar. That having been said, I think this is the right way to do things. The greyed out scrollbar tells me that control is meant to be scrollable. So if I do something that changes the content, I can expect to be able to scroll it.
  - mixmastamyk 1y ago
    I originally had some text in there saying as much. But this always on capability has to be enabled by the author explicitly. It’s rare enough that I felt keeping my answer simple was more important.
layer8 1y ago
“When not needed” is subjective. It’s okay to have an option to hide them when you prefer that, but we are now at a point where websites and apps are adding HTML-based position indicators and “scroll down to see more” labels because scrollbars have lost the ability to serve that function for most users.
sudahtigabulan 1y ago
I want them always because, if they are hidden, it's difficult to get them back when needed. You need to get the cursor in the right zone (which is invisible, and quite narrow) and keep it there for long enough (so you have to slow down in order to not overshoot). This is a pretty annoying thing to have to do many times every day. Sometimes, for narrower scrollbars, it might take a few attempts until I succeed. It's distracting.

Reasoning 1y ago

I don't have a strong preference either way but the argument is the scrollbar isn't just for moving your position on the page but also for communicating to the user where they are on the page. If you hide it you're removing half it's functionality.

mixmastamyk 1y ago

Traditional scrollbars always went away when they weren't needed. The problem now is going away when they are.

kbolino 1y ago
I don't think this is correct. I distinctly remember some scroll-enabled UI elements on Windows displaying a completely greyed out scrollbar when the content wasn't actually scrollable. Indeed, I can verify this today with PUTTYGEN.EXE even on Windows 11, where if I generate an RSA-2048 key there is an active scrollbar, while if I generate an Ed25519 key which is 1/8 the size, there is a greyed out scrollbar. That having been said, I think this is the right way to do things. The greyed out scrollbar tells me that control is meant to be scrollable. So if I do something that changes the content, I can expect to be able to scroll it.
- mixmastamyk 1y ago
  I originally had some text in there saying as much. But this always on capability has to be enabled by the author explicitly. It’s rare enough that I felt keeping my answer simple was more important.

layer8 1y ago

“When not needed” is subjective. It’s okay to have an option to hide them when you prefer that, but we are now at a point where websites and apps are adding HTML-based position indicators and “scroll down to see more” labels because scrollbars have lost the ability to serve that function for most users.

sudahtigabulan 1y ago

I want them always because, if they are hidden, it's difficult to get them back when needed. You need to get the cursor in the right zone (which is invisible, and quite narrow) and keep it there for long enough (so you have to slow down in order to not overshoot). This is a pretty annoying thing to have to do many times every day. Sometimes, for narrower scrollbars, it might take a few attempts until I succeed. It's distracting.