10 ms·
Semicolons bring the drama; that's why I love them
- brudgers 1y agohttps://archive.ph/0QYGh https://archive.ph/0QYGh Because anti-semicolon ideology is anti-poetic.
- gnabgib 1y agoRelated: Marked decline in semicolons in English books, study suggests (10 points, 6 days ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44056344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44056344 Unrelated: The origin and virtues of semicolons in programming languages (46 points, 2024, 19 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40038712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40038712
- bitwize 1y agoThese semicolons are my light inside the dark https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M94ii6MVilw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M94ii6MVilw
- losvedir 1y agoOh, I hadn't seen that before. I thought this was going to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yup8gIXxWDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yup8gIXxWDU
- DonHopkins 1y agoOr even https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
- pmg101 1y agoThe title misuses a semicolon and should use a colon to join two somewhat-related ideas where there is a directional causality. > Prescriptive grammar brings the drama: that's why I love it
- timewizard 1y agoI love semicolons; because, they bring the drama. Maybe?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- QuercusMax 1y agoYou don't need the incorrect comma after because.
- neilv 1y agoCorrect use of comma: "I love drama; bring it, bitch!"
- kiitos 1y agoNah, this is pretty awkward. "I love semicolons; they bring the drama!" "I love semicolons, because they bring the drama" "Semicolons: I love them for their drama" "Semicolons, drama, love: an incoherent journey through language and LLMs"
- owlstuffing 1y agoOr, if you are an AI: “I prefer the em dash — it’s my calling card.”
- yzydserd 1y agoI feel a semicolon is more appropriate; I would not declare misuse. Prescriptive grammar brings the drama; that’s why I love it. The second clause is more a continuation than an explanation. This works, though. There is one reason I love prescriptive grammar: it brings the drama.
- xanderlewis 1y agoI fully agree with this.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- BuyMyBitcoins 1y agoDuring high school the consensus from our English teachers was “we know these things are hard to use properly. We’ll teach you how to do it, but it is usually better just to rewrite what you are trying to say using two sentences and avoid them.” That being said, we were also advised to “use at most one semicolon in the writing section of the SAT. Proper usage will help your score. But, you better make sure you’ve used it correctly.”
- wrboyce 1y agoI love a good semicolon, and it tickled me that your quote could be rewritten to include one. > We know these things are hard to use properly; we’ll teach you how to do it, but it is usually better just to rewrite what you are trying to say using two sentences and avoid them. Although it does make the sentence a bit long and unwieldy. EDIT: hah, so can your second quote! > Proper usage will help your score; you’d better make sure you’ve used it correctly. But in that instance I think the dropped “but” is more important. EDIT2: even better… > Use at most one semicolon in the writing section of the SAT; proper usage will help your score. But you’d better make sure you’ve used it correctly.
- georgyo 1y agoDid you just start a sentence with "But"!?!? My 7th grade english teacher is not happy with you! (I know there is nothing wrong with it, but some teachers really dislike it)
- staticshock 1y agoAs a rule of thumb, when the pause between two adjacent sentences implied by the period seems a bit too halting, try a semicolon. I find it easier to think about the utility of semicolons from the perspective of individual sentences to be combined. And therefore, if a properly used semicolon were to be replaced with a period, the two resulting sentences should still make sense in isolation, they'd just feel ever so slightly too far apart. "Semicolons bring the drama. That's why I love them." Does it work? Yes. Is there a clear through-line from one sentence to the next? Yes. Does the pause between the sentences feel a bit too abrupt, though? Maybe! ("Establish clear through-line" can be another nice reason to combine sentences with a semicolon.)
- jparishy 1y agoI will sometimes do this when, for whatever reason, I don't want to capitalize that next letter. It's the 'T' in 'That'; too loud!
- kazinator 1y agoAlso, when the pause between two adjacent sentence is awkwardly inadequate, try writing a dot above the comma. ;)
- JadeNB 1y ago> Also, when the pause between two adjacent sentence is awkwardly inadequate, try writing a dot above the comma. Ah, you missed the chance to refer euphoniously instead to the pause between clauses!
- kazinator 1y agoBack in the good old 1980s, I witnessed how a teacher, in front of the whole school assembly in the gym, cracked a joke about Mrs. Claus (of Santa) being the "subordinate Claus". It drew some boos; today it would likely be blood.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
- spudlyo 1y agoDelightfully meta at times, a fun read! I recently binged all of Jane Austen’s novels, and her dense prose is so chock full of clauses and sub clauses, that I like feel she uses semicolons and emdashes the same way programmers might nest with braces.
- JadeNB 1y agoI know it's at best not quite off topic, but, if you like meta and you haven't already read it, then you will be delighted by "This is the title of this story, which is also found several times in the story itself" (https://stuff.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/titleOfTheStory.html https://stuff.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/tit...).
- mmooss 1y agoAnd Austen's writing is an all-time landmark of clarity. Maybe the issue is that clarity depends not on punctuation but on the writer.
- kazinator 1y agowriting is all about prescriptive grammar. The written language has no native speakers about whom to form and validate hypotheses. "precriptive" even has "script" in it; i.e. writing was itself was invented for codifying rules, so course it imposes rules upon itself first.
- brudgers 1y agoSome comments here reminded me of this, https://youtu.be/vtIzMaLkCaM?si=pjratCwL75XR3iUt https://youtu.be/vtIzMaLkCaM?si=pjratCwL75XR3iUt
- spudlyo 1y agoI’m not likely to watch an 80 minute video so I can understand what you mean, perhaps you can add some additional context?
- givemeethekeys 1y agoAll! Punctuation! Brings! Drama! :P
- nssnsjsjsjs 1y agoAll—punctuation. Bring's Drama?
- olalonde 1y agoAs an aside, I’ve noticed that ChatGPT uses em dashes (“—”) quite frequently — much more often than I’m used to seeing on the web. It’s a bit surprising, considering it's largely trained on web-based data.
- kiitos 1y agoem dashes aren't cool—you know what's cool? en dashes, like maybe 10–15 of them?
- mmooss 1y agoI think you misued the em dash. It shouldn't separate two independent clauses (I think).
- DonHopkins 1y agoI love side-bangs: dot-em-dash and em-dash-dot horizontal exclamation marks •— like aroused upside-down question mark parentheticals, thrust sideways at ±90° —• to cleave and erect an exciting, turgid sub-clause from an otherwise limp, boring sentence.
- lieks 1y agoIt also uses them correctly—with no spaces. I have never seen anyone do that on the web.
- latentsea 1y agoI didn't know that was the correct way to use them. It feels incorrect in a space delimited language. Interesting.
- dragonwriter 1y agoEnglish is not actually a space-delimited language; that's an approximation which is, in this case, throwing you off. Punctuation is usually set closed on at least one, if not both, sides, though there are exceptions.
- CalChris 1y agoBut I have been to college.
- nssnsjsjsjs 1y agoShortest sentence with a semicolon: tl;dr
- dsubburam 1y agoLet me tie it with: ts;du (Too short; don't understand.)
- Perenti 1y agoThis reminds me of a "debate" I had with RMS. Back in '98 I was involved with the Gnu Documentation Project, which was about improving the often very out-of-date Gnu documentation. RMS tends to use semi-colons where others use commas, with _MANY_ subordinate clauses. I suggested he use shorter sentences, and commas. His response: "But I like semicolons" That's when I realised that regardless of his bizarre brilliance, there was no way to discuss some issues with him. I still respect him, but he's a shocking writer.
- mmooss 1y ago> RMS tends to use semi-colons where others use commas, with _MANY_ subordinate clauses. There are grammatical rules to using semicolons and using them with a subordinate clause on one side is a definite error. I can't think of how that would be valid. (Maybe that's what you meant.)
- cryptonector 1y agoGrammar rules need to be more descriptive than prescriptive. Some people like to introduce new styles of writing that would lead prescriptivists to scream "witch!!"; it's fun to watch prescriptivist meltdowns.
- mmooss 1y agoYou are such the rebel - using semicolons ilicitly! > Grammar rules need to be more descriptive than prescriptive. The style guides - and dictionaries - are way ahead of you, and have long said that. However, we do need some consistency in order to have clear meaning. Otherwise, you'll write it your new radical way, and others will understand it in the generally understood way. You can create your own protocols and syntaxes for your computer, but interoperation can be tricky.
- cryptonector 1y agoRight, so if you're going to be an innovator, make it clear, otherwise it's not the same language. For example I'm pretty sure that RMS is not completely opaque in his use of semicolons.
- navaed01 1y agoMaybe it’s selection bias, but it’s amazing how the comments section for this post has so much more punctuation than a typical HN post; fascinating
- rsyring 1y agoI assumed this would be about JavaScript and struggled to process the actual article for a good 10s. :)
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- analog31 1y agoSolution: Learn C.
- deafpolygon 1y agoI love the English language; it feels like a declining art -- drowned out by memes, typos, and algorithm-approved brevity. I use semicolons in my personal journal all the time. Probably incorrectly, but who cares?
- keeganpoppen 1y agothis whole piece is a massive punctuation-of-all-stripes flex, and i’m here for it
- pivic 1y agoI strongly recommend reading the book 'Semicolon' by Cecelia Watson. My review of the book: https://bookwyrm.social/user/pivic/review/3310502/s/review-of-semicolon-on-storygraph#anchor-3310502 https://bookwyrm.social/user/pivic/review/3310502/s/review-o...
- robertlagrant 1y agoIt annoys me to see so many marketing slogans and material using commas terribly.
- WesolyKubeczek 1y agoThis also applies to Javascript.
- DonHopkins 1y agoI love dramatically separating the sardonic Wayne's World postfix not from the sentence... Not! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._Not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._Not! https://youtu.be/MCapEm8Nu7c?t=104 https://youtu.be/MCapEm8Nu7c?t=104 There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the insincere disclaimer but prefix, but people always use it to falsely claim they're not racist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_not_racist,_but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_not_racist,_but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43gm3CJePn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43gm3CJePn0
- scheeseman486 1y agoI try to sneak them in occasionally; even when they're not appropriate.
- jll29 1y agoThe semicolon followed by that very, very important word called "however" are often cruicial in abstracts of scientific papers: turn.sh finds you where the authors of a paper switch to critizizing: #!/bin/sh grep -C2 -n -i -E "[.;.][\n\t\ ]however" # scan where the paper takes a critical turn
- bjourne 1y agoArguments against: 1. Most people don't use them correctly. 2. How long a pause should "feel" is lost nuance. Non-native English speakers and people without academic degrees can't feel the difference between semi-colons and periods so why bother? 3. A small set of orthogonal letters and symbols is better for writing than sets with redundancies. 4. Long sentences suck.
- curtisszmania 1y ago[dead]
- Ruq 1y agoI thank my Mom for trying to instill enough Grammatical knowledge where I use the semicolon from time to time.