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Unionization only works if the union has the power to exclude replacement labour from the jobsite. “Exploiting” labour is a meaningless value judgement. There’s

Unionization only works if the union has the power to exclude replacement labour from the jobsite. “Exploiting” labour is a meaningless value judgement. There’s no scientific definition of what is exploitation and what isn’t. Back in the late 19th / early 20th century we had no restrictions on immigration, minimal state welfare programs, and no minimum wage laws. Huge numbers of people migrated to the US for work, they rapidly built infrastructure and buildings in cities like New York and Chicago. There was high upward social mobility. All the problems started with minimum wage laws and the welfare state. You can’t have a functioning welfare state with unrestricted immigration. When you restrict immigration you essentially create a black market for below-minimum wage labour. That’s why the US has such a huge number of illegal immigrants: to do the jobs that nobody else wants in construction and agriculture. Before all this (effectively) regulation and restriction of the labour market, you had the ability for people to learn skilled trades on the job. That was a form of non-monetary compensation that is no longer economically viable due to minimum wage laws. Minimum wage laws set a floor on the amount of productivity a worker must supply before you can hire him. The other problem we’ve caused with these laws is inflation. The cost of living has skyrocketed. People on minimum wage today are in many ways economically worse off than the migrant workers arriving in droves before minimum wage laws existed!

mmooss 1y ago
> “Exploiting” labour is a meaningless value judgement. There’s no scientific definition of what is exploitation and what isn’t. Values are our goals, the most important things we have. The world certainly isn't limited to things with a scientific definition. (Also, I expect there are plenty of legal and related definitions of labor exploitation.) > There was high upward social mobility. You'll need to document some of these claims. Unions started because working conditions and pay were awful; people were widely exploited - including injured, cheated, etc. - due to their fundamentally weak marketplace position: the owner controls all the jobs, the worker only controls one. Since unionization, the economy, pay, and working conditions have all boomed. It's hard to argue with the results - the greatest economic performance in history. Yes, the wealthy and powerful don't get as much of the pie, but the pie is much larger. > The other problem we’ve caused with these laws is inflation. The cost of living has skyrocketed. People on minimum wage today are in many ways economically worse off than the migrant workers arriving in droves before minimum wage laws existed! That is a complete falsehood. > unrestricted immigration When and where has that happened? Who supports that? It's quite a strawperson.

mmooss 1y ago

> “Exploiting” labour is a meaningless value judgement. There’s no scientific definition of what is exploitation and what isn’t. Values are our goals, the most important things we have. The world certainly isn't limited to things with a scientific definition. (Also, I expect there are plenty of legal and related definitions of labor exploitation.) > There was high upward social mobility. You'll need to document some of these claims. Unions started because working conditions and pay were awful; people were widely exploited - including injured, cheated, etc. - due to their fundamentally weak marketplace position: the owner controls all the jobs, the worker only controls one. Since unionization, the economy, pay, and working conditions have all boomed. It's hard to argue with the results - the greatest economic performance in history. Yes, the wealthy and powerful don't get as much of the pie, but the pie is much larger. > The other problem we’ve caused with these laws is inflation. The cost of living has skyrocketed. People on minimum wage today are in many ways economically worse off than the migrant workers arriving in droves before minimum wage laws existed! That is a complete falsehood. > unrestricted immigration When and where has that happened? Who supports that? It's quite a strawperson.