4 ms·

Funny how, when a policy that was considered completely crazy a few years ago is introduced, there will be an army of people trying to find every justification

Funny how, when a policy that was considered completely crazy a few years ago is introduced, there will be an army of people trying to find every justification for that policy to become normalized.

aqme28 1y ago
A lot of people derive their politics not from principles, but from association. If my Team is for it and opponents are against it, then I am for it.
- cycomanic 1y ago
  Yes and I believe this one of the most problematic aspects of representative democracies. Policies are often complex so hardly anyone has the time to educate themselves on all policies of a party, instead many revert to the other extreme and simply cheer for their team. An interesting concept to alleviate this problem has been pioneered in Melbourne local politics is citizen councils.
  - XorNot 1y ago
    I only ever hear this used by people who insist that bad faith interlocutors just need to be given a 10th chance to make their point. No one has infinite time or attention.
  - LeonB 1y ago
    My Google skills are failing me here — can you provide a link, and/or some more search terms, regarding these citizen councils? Is it specific to Melbourne municipal council or other Victorian LGA’s?
    - cycomanic 1y ago
      The correct term seems to be citizen assemblies (apologies). Here's a link: https://www.newdemocracy.com.au/independent-citizens-assemblies/ https://www.newdemocracy.com.au/independent-citizens-assembl...
anonfordays 1y ago
Funny how, both sides read this and think it's the other side you're referencing.
smitty1e 1y ago
TFA is merely an historical overview, not an argument for or against. The conclusion is: "We'll see". One might argue that the sight in question tends toward the Trumpian side of things in general, I suppose.
- 0xB31B1B 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - smitty1e 1y ago
    What does that have to do with the article, please? I should have thought this site a little better than "guilt by association".
    - watwut 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - smitty1e 1y ago
        Where? Was there anything substantial on offer, or are your replies so many crude fragments from the Argument Clinic?
        sundaeofshock 1y ago
        Maybe lie is too strong a term. Having said that, the article suggests that US cars don’t sell in Europe due to tariffs, ignoring the fact that vehicles like the Ford F-150 just don’t work in the small streets of most European cities.
        watwut 1y ago
        The whole German cars point is based on "VAT is an import tax" lie. That is pure lie, VAT is exactly the same for German made cars. It is sales tax. I am using the word "lie" rather then "mistake" because it is well know and easy to double check. No way they do not know.
roenxi 1y ago
Policies don't just appear from the aether; it takes quite a big push to get a government to move in one direction or another. They are sedentary beasts by nature. So it is a safe bet that every implemented policy has a number of people who quite like it, but the community that likes it may well be considered fringe up until they prove to have the numbers and get their preferred policy implemented. Every flavour of economics enjoys some level of widespread support, there are still a bunch of people who profess a commitment to Marxism. Nobody listens to them (hurrah!) but they're still there. If we had Marxists in charge their articles would probably get a lot more traction though because people want to know what is going to happen next. Ditto things like the gold standard, fiat currency, ultra-low taxes, ultra-high taxes, globalism and economic independence strategies. TLDR; there is probably a strong selection bias here.
throwawaythekey 1y ago
You also have the crazies that initially advocated for the policy now reversing their positions.

Funny how, when a policy that was considered completely crazy a few years ago is introduced, there will be an army of people trying to find every justification for that policy to become normalized.

aqme28 1y ago

A lot of people derive their politics not from principles, but from association. If my Team is for it and opponents are against it, then I am for it.

cycomanic 1y ago
Yes and I believe this one of the most problematic aspects of representative democracies. Policies are often complex so hardly anyone has the time to educate themselves on all policies of a party, instead many revert to the other extreme and simply cheer for their team. An interesting concept to alleviate this problem has been pioneered in Melbourne local politics is citizen councils.
- XorNot 1y ago
  I only ever hear this used by people who insist that bad faith interlocutors just need to be given a 10th chance to make their point. No one has infinite time or attention.
- LeonB 1y ago
  My Google skills are failing me here — can you provide a link, and/or some more search terms, regarding these citizen councils? Is it specific to Melbourne municipal council or other Victorian LGA’s?
  - cycomanic 1y ago
    The correct term seems to be citizen assemblies (apologies). Here's a link: https://www.newdemocracy.com.au/independent-citizens-assemblies/ https://www.newdemocracy.com.au/independent-citizens-assembl...

anonfordays 1y ago

Funny how, both sides read this and think it's the other side you're referencing.

smitty1e 1y ago

TFA is merely an historical overview, not an argument for or against. The conclusion is: "We'll see". One might argue that the sight in question tends toward the Trumpian side of things in general, I suppose.

0xB31B1B 1y ago
[flagged]
- smitty1e 1y ago
  What does that have to do with the article, please? I should have thought this site a little better than "guilt by association".
  - watwut 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - smitty1e 1y ago
      Where? Was there anything substantial on offer, or are your replies so many crude fragments from the Argument Clinic?
      - sundaeofshock 1y ago
        Maybe lie is too strong a term. Having said that, the article suggests that US cars don’t sell in Europe due to tariffs, ignoring the fact that vehicles like the Ford F-150 just don’t work in the small streets of most European cities.
      - watwut 1y ago
        The whole German cars point is based on "VAT is an import tax" lie. That is pure lie, VAT is exactly the same for German made cars. It is sales tax. I am using the word "lie" rather then "mistake" because it is well know and easy to double check. No way they do not know.

roenxi 1y ago

Policies don't just appear from the aether; it takes quite a big push to get a government to move in one direction or another. They are sedentary beasts by nature. So it is a safe bet that every implemented policy has a number of people who quite like it, but the community that likes it may well be considered fringe up until they prove to have the numbers and get their preferred policy implemented. Every flavour of economics enjoys some level of widespread support, there are still a bunch of people who profess a commitment to Marxism. Nobody listens to them (hurrah!) but they're still there. If we had Marxists in charge their articles would probably get a lot more traction though because people want to know what is going to happen next. Ditto things like the gold standard, fiat currency, ultra-low taxes, ultra-high taxes, globalism and economic independence strategies. TLDR; there is probably a strong selection bias here.

throwawaythekey 1y ago

You also have the crazies that initially advocated for the policy now reversing their positions.