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I wonder how this applies to the army. In the army, the people around you in the same situation as you become your mates, and seeing them suffer or die has a bi

by Fnoord 1y ago

I wonder how this applies to the army. In the army, the people around you in the same situation as you become your mates, and seeing them suffer or die has a big effect on soldiers. I'd say spending time together forms / ends up in bonding, and those friends aren't friends (although the English-American definition is more like 'peers' anyway); they're former friends. People you used to spend time with. If it comes to school and work, there's competition. Lots of it. In the army, not so much.

waonderer 1y ago
In the army, competitions are not as much of an issue because the goal is not to make more money or mere promotion, but to serve the country. "Dying in the act of war" is not frowned upon but celebrated as a badge. Opposite to contrary belief, higher rank individuals (except the topmost levels) are at the front line leading the pack. Army personnel have families, but they kill others who also have families — this is not normal for most people. They get desensitised after practice and war in difficult terrains. I was told by an army lad, his father had instructions to always move forward. If you turn, your own men can shoot you, mistaking you for an enemy.
jader201 1y ago
I think this is basic competition. For example, in board games, there are several types: - Competitive games: every person for themselves; there’s one winner, everyone else loses - Co-op games: every human vs. “the game”, often in the form of AI opponents, or environmental conditions; everyone wins or everyone loses - Team games: X vs. Y players (and sometimes more than two teams); one team wins, everyone else loses I feel like work is meant to be a co-op game, but just like co-op games, even though you’re supposed to be on the same team, you often still want to feel like “the best”. Not to the point of bringing the whole team down, but to the point you can secretly feel like you carried the team. In some hostile work environments, it can actually turn into a team game (inter-departmental competition), or even a competitive game (intra-departmental competition). I’ve been in all of these types of companies, and the co-op ones are obviously the best, especially the ones that care more about the elevation of the team over individual success. In the military, it’s very much a team game. You are clearly on the same team, and if you don’t cooperate with your team, you will (likely) lose. Obviously, with military — particularly in war — there can be actual life and death at stake, which elevates this to an extreme level.
- creer 1y ago
  > - Competitive games: every person for themselves; there’s one winner, everyone else loses If you see people finding value only in winning, you might want to switch to different gaming friends. Around here, managing the critical mass to play the game is a first collective victory. And there is plenty of congratulations and collective joy to witnessing a game strategy well played. That same strategy that others may think "crushed you". Being able to play with smart players is 100% a blessing.
  - jader201 1y ago
    I’m talking strictly the rules of gameplay, and applying that metaphorically to competition within the workplace and war. Taken literally, of course the experience of playing a board game should be fun for everyone, regardless of the outcome. But if you want to stick to the metaphor, I would agree that if you’re playing board games with sore losers/winners should result in finding new people to play with. And similarly, if you have coworkers that are only looking out for themselves and their own success, without regard to the success of the team, find a new place to work. But that’s the point I was trying to make.
fetzu 1y ago
I wouldn’t say that there is no competition in the army, in fact some selection processes (special forces, who gets up the ladder and earns a seat on the general staff or a star) are probably more competitive than in civilian life. It’s probably more about the general mindset: those extreme situation (and I am not necessarily talking about the competitive ones) create that positive feedback loop though shared hardships and closeness, and probably outweigh that competitiveness.
mierz00 1y ago
I never experienced competition like this in the Army, however I have outside of it. The Army was competitive in a fun way. Where it’s fun to beat your friends in PT or to laugh as they trip over. But when it came down to it, we were on the same team and you would help out a friend. Inversely, not being a team player would get you bullied.

by Fnoord 1y ago

waonderer 1y ago

In the army, competitions are not as much of an issue because the goal is not to make more money or mere promotion, but to serve the country. "Dying in the act of war" is not frowned upon but celebrated as a badge. Opposite to contrary belief, higher rank individuals (except the topmost levels) are at the front line leading the pack. Army personnel have families, but they kill others who also have families — this is not normal for most people. They get desensitised after practice and war in difficult terrains. I was told by an army lad, his father had instructions to always move forward. If you turn, your own men can shoot you, mistaking you for an enemy.

jader201 1y ago

I think this is basic competition. For example, in board games, there are several types: - Competitive games: every person for themselves; there’s one winner, everyone else loses - Co-op games: every human vs. “the game”, often in the form of AI opponents, or environmental conditions; everyone wins or everyone loses - Team games: X vs. Y players (and sometimes more than two teams); one team wins, everyone else loses I feel like work is meant to be a co-op game, but just like co-op games, even though you’re supposed to be on the same team, you often still want to feel like “the best”. Not to the point of bringing the whole team down, but to the point you can secretly feel like you carried the team. In some hostile work environments, it can actually turn into a team game (inter-departmental competition), or even a competitive game (intra-departmental competition). I’ve been in all of these types of companies, and the co-op ones are obviously the best, especially the ones that care more about the elevation of the team over individual success. In the military, it’s very much a team game. You are clearly on the same team, and if you don’t cooperate with your team, you will (likely) lose. Obviously, with military — particularly in war — there can be actual life and death at stake, which elevates this to an extreme level.

creer 1y ago
> - Competitive games: every person for themselves; there’s one winner, everyone else loses If you see people finding value only in winning, you might want to switch to different gaming friends. Around here, managing the critical mass to play the game is a first collective victory. And there is plenty of congratulations and collective joy to witnessing a game strategy well played. That same strategy that others may think "crushed you". Being able to play with smart players is 100% a blessing.
- jader201 1y ago
  I’m talking strictly the rules of gameplay, and applying that metaphorically to competition within the workplace and war. Taken literally, of course the experience of playing a board game should be fun for everyone, regardless of the outcome. But if you want to stick to the metaphor, I would agree that if you’re playing board games with sore losers/winners should result in finding new people to play with. And similarly, if you have coworkers that are only looking out for themselves and their own success, without regard to the success of the team, find a new place to work. But that’s the point I was trying to make.

fetzu 1y ago

I wouldn’t say that there is no competition in the army, in fact some selection processes (special forces, who gets up the ladder and earns a seat on the general staff or a star) are probably more competitive than in civilian life. It’s probably more about the general mindset: those extreme situation (and I am not necessarily talking about the competitive ones) create that positive feedback loop though shared hardships and closeness, and probably outweigh that competitiveness.

mierz00 1y ago

I never experienced competition like this in the Army, however I have outside of it. The Army was competitive in a fun way. Where it’s fun to beat your friends in PT or to laugh as they trip over. But when it came down to it, we were on the same team and you would help out a friend. Inversely, not being a team player would get you bullied.