4 ms·

How ironic that this complaint of poor quality and lowered standards comes from a FreeBSD developer who actively attacks people who care about producing quality

How ironic that this complaint of poor quality and lowered standards comes from a FreeBSD developer who actively attacks people who care about producing quality software. Cathedral vs bazaar isn't the issue. It is simply putting quality as a priority vs not making it a priority. Which is why some cathedrals produce poor quality software (freebsd), and others produce high quality software (netbsd).

phkamp 14y ago
I do ?
- papsosouid 14y ago
  Remember when freebsd included a closed source binary blob to support atheros wireless chipsets? And some people in the openbsd and netbsd groups decided that since their OSes have quality standards and don't allow garbage like that, they would make an open source driver? And then you yelled shit at them at a conference and called Reyk a terrorist? It is one thing to hate everyone who works an OS other than the one you prefer, that's just typical childishness. But to attack them for having higher standards than you do? Yes, I would say that puts you in the position of "not being one to talk about quality".
  - phkamp 14y ago
    Lets just say that maybe I have a slightly different recollection about that meeting ? :-)
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      "First talk was OpenBSD's wireless talk. Much rethoric about freedom and little appreciation for the way the world actually works, as opposed to how it looks like it works from the headquarters of OpenBSD. Asked directly if they thought they could defend their reverse engineering of for instance the Atheros HAL. The answer as I heard it was "Laws don't apply to us". I guess I'm not the right person to appreciate the valor of their crusade, but somehow their rethoric reminds me too much about Rote Arme Fraktion and similar terrorgroups of the seventies which tried to change society by bombing political correct holes in it. If OpenBSD aims to corner the paranoid/radical part of the market they're welcome to it for all I care. Doesn't sound like it is doing anything good for their wireless support however." I dunno, sounds to me like you bitterly despise anyone who dares to do things correctly instead of doing whatever is expedient. OpenBSD's stance on the wireless issue was correct, has been proven to be correct, and should be admired. And I'm a netbsd guy, so I am "supposed to" hate openbsd.
      - phkamp 14y ago
        The fact that OpenBSD put any users and source-code holders in USA in direct violation of USA (stupid!) laws on spectrum access is the context you are missing here.
        papsosouid 14y ago
        Even if we were to throw common sense and reason to the wind and pretend that is even remotely close to the truth, it would in no way explain your behaviour. You outright stated that "the way the world works" is accepting closed source garbage that can not be verified, debugged or fixed. You think the way the world works is compromising security and stability for convenience. And you belittle people who do care about quality, as if it somehow hurts you that such people exist.

phkamp 14y ago

I do ?

papsosouid 14y ago
Remember when freebsd included a closed source binary blob to support atheros wireless chipsets? And some people in the openbsd and netbsd groups decided that since their OSes have quality standards and don't allow garbage like that, they would make an open source driver? And then you yelled shit at them at a conference and called Reyk a terrorist? It is one thing to hate everyone who works an OS other than the one you prefer, that's just typical childishness. But to attack them for having higher standards than you do? Yes, I would say that puts you in the position of "not being one to talk about quality".
- phkamp 14y ago
  Lets just say that maybe I have a slightly different recollection about that meeting ? :-)
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    "First talk was OpenBSD's wireless talk. Much rethoric about freedom and little appreciation for the way the world actually works, as opposed to how it looks like it works from the headquarters of OpenBSD. Asked directly if they thought they could defend their reverse engineering of for instance the Atheros HAL. The answer as I heard it was "Laws don't apply to us". I guess I'm not the right person to appreciate the valor of their crusade, but somehow their rethoric reminds me too much about Rote Arme Fraktion and similar terrorgroups of the seventies which tried to change society by bombing political correct holes in it. If OpenBSD aims to corner the paranoid/radical part of the market they're welcome to it for all I care. Doesn't sound like it is doing anything good for their wireless support however." I dunno, sounds to me like you bitterly despise anyone who dares to do things correctly instead of doing whatever is expedient. OpenBSD's stance on the wireless issue was correct, has been proven to be correct, and should be admired. And I'm a netbsd guy, so I am "supposed to" hate openbsd.
    - phkamp 14y ago
      The fact that OpenBSD put any users and source-code holders in USA in direct violation of USA (stupid!) laws on spectrum access is the context you are missing here.
      - papsosouid 14y ago
        Even if we were to throw common sense and reason to the wind and pretend that is even remotely close to the truth, it would in no way explain your behaviour. You outright stated that "the way the world works" is accepting closed source garbage that can not be verified, debugged or fixed. You think the way the world works is compromising security and stability for convenience. And you belittle people who do care about quality, as if it somehow hurts you that such people exist.