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Maybe you lack perspective because you have been confortable your whole life? What use does "the environment" have if you cannot afford to live? The jobs neces

by seec 1y ago

Maybe you lack perspective because you have been confortable your whole life? What use does "the environment" have if you cannot afford to live? The jobs necessarily come before the environment because they are the requirement for survival that makes any of it matter. Only rich self-righteous people can afford to care about the environment and the irony is that those people are rich and can do a lot of posturing around these issues, precisely because those poor people exist to take those jobs.

Herring 1y ago
> What use does "the environment" have if you cannot afford to live? There are plenty of extremely poor people in the world who don’t use that as an excuse to try destroy others - and often themselves. Plenty. Travel and you’ll meet a few. Selling your soul to the devil is always a choice.
- seec 1y ago
  You are misrepresenting exploitation of local ressources as "selling your soul to the devil". This is such a bad faith way to present the situation. There is absolutely no plan to "destroy others" the fact that you try to argue that this is one of their goals is just bonkers. The externalities around oil are not just local but also global, so if they accept to deal with the consequences locally because they think the benefits are superior, who are you to judge in their place. It's not like if they refuse to drill and get the oil, someone else won't provide it to the market from somewhere else. They would be subjected to the global externalities just as well but zero benefits and just avoidance of local externalities (which they could at least control somewhat). You are speaking as if they are simple-minded and this is an easy problem. The only one over-simplifying things there, is you. Are you supposed to be a "well-traveled" person? If that is the case, one could argue that it comes with the side effect of dishonesty and bad faith arguments. You should get dumped with no money/ressource somewhere in Africa (let's say Congo) to see how long it takes you to start working on a cobalt mine or something similar to survive. Pretending to have the moral high-ground is extremely easy when you lack nothing and don't have to fight for your survival.
chneu 1y ago
I grew up rural, poor, and conservative. Ranching, hunting, farming. That was me until I traveled and experienced people who aren't selfish conquerers who believe all their actions are justified if you just say sorry to god.

by seec 1y ago

Herring 1y ago

> What use does "the environment" have if you cannot afford to live? There are plenty of extremely poor people in the world who don’t use that as an excuse to try destroy others - and often themselves. Plenty. Travel and you’ll meet a few. Selling your soul to the devil is always a choice.

seec 1y ago
You are misrepresenting exploitation of local ressources as "selling your soul to the devil". This is such a bad faith way to present the situation. There is absolutely no plan to "destroy others" the fact that you try to argue that this is one of their goals is just bonkers. The externalities around oil are not just local but also global, so if they accept to deal with the consequences locally because they think the benefits are superior, who are you to judge in their place. It's not like if they refuse to drill and get the oil, someone else won't provide it to the market from somewhere else. They would be subjected to the global externalities just as well but zero benefits and just avoidance of local externalities (which they could at least control somewhat). You are speaking as if they are simple-minded and this is an easy problem. The only one over-simplifying things there, is you. Are you supposed to be a "well-traveled" person? If that is the case, one could argue that it comes with the side effect of dishonesty and bad faith arguments. You should get dumped with no money/ressource somewhere in Africa (let's say Congo) to see how long it takes you to start working on a cobalt mine or something similar to survive. Pretending to have the moral high-ground is extremely easy when you lack nothing and don't have to fight for your survival.

chneu 1y ago

I grew up rural, poor, and conservative. Ranching, hunting, farming. That was me until I traveled and experienced people who aren't selfish conquerers who believe all their actions are justified if you just say sorry to god.