4 ms·

It's just wild to sit in Alberta and push to become a Russian-style oligarchic petrostate.

by SauciestGNU 1y ago

dismalaf 1y ago
What makes you think we'd resemble Russia more than, say, Norway?
- SauciestGNU 1y ago
  The general right-wing friendliness of the movement. If not fully Russian-style kleptocratic petrostate then at least American style fascism. If the Alberta conservatives were courting European relationships that would be one thing, but it sure seems like the Alberta and Canadian conservatives in general are fellow travelers with the russo-hungaro-american-etc authoritarian nationalists.
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    Literally one government ago we elected a leftist party. Separation goes back way further than Danielle Smith.
    - SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
      One government, but two elections and due to a split in the right. And "leftist" is... generous.
      - dismalaf 1y ago
        There is nothing left of the NDP except the literal communist parties that get like 0.001% of the vote... How is that not leftist?
        Sprocklem 1y ago
        The Alberta NDP under Notley was a centrist party and its policies were far more aligned with the federal liberals than the federal NDP. Obviously, there has been a change in leadership, but I don't see any reason to believe that the Alberta NDP will be any less centrist under Nenshi.
        wussboy 1y ago
        Having nothing on your left doesn’t make you leftist. If I drive in the right hand lane and there’s nothing on my left, I am not driving in the left hand lane.
    - throw0101b 1y ago
      > Literally one government ago we elected a leftist party. Over the last (say) 50 years, how many left-leaning governments have there been in government? It's basically been right-ish since Lougheed in 1971: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta#List_of_premiers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta#Li... Notley was in for less than four years: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta_by_time_in_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta_by...
- jagger27 1y ago
  There was plenty of opportunity for a sovereign wealth fund for decades within Alberta and for all of Canada. You’re saying now it’s only on the table that the filthy liberal coastal elites won’t be on the unfair dole? The unaccountable extra-national corporations who control most of Alberta’s oil production won’t suddenly become more generous and compliant to the needs of Albertans upon separation. You don’t have the balls or the leverage to control them. The province will have less leverage in the long run than before without the other two thirds of Canada’s economy to lever with in trade deals. The main selling point it seems is to make the rest of Canada suffer as hard as possible. Make no mistake, we absolutely will suffer from the withdrawal of being cut off that black tar we’re addicted to from you. But you’re far more addicted to it than the rest of us are. What comes after?
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    Alberta has a wealth fund... We've also paid $67 billion to the rest of Canada in equalization payments...
    - jagger27 1y ago
      Alberta _had_ a sovereign wealth fund. What happened to it? Equalization payments don’t explain of the collapse of the once huge fund. It sure didn’t buy much local diversification! You’d think Alberta would be more like Norway already then. Instead you have lifted pickup trucks and tailings ponds. Even more wealth won’t solve the cultural bankruptcy that’s making the province upset enough to consider separation to begin with. To answer your original question, that’s why I think it’ll be more like Russia.
      - dismalaf 1y ago
        > Alberta _had_ a sovereign wealth fund. What happened to it? It's literally still there. You just need to pay attention: https://www.alberta.ca/heritage-savings-trust-fund https://www.alberta.ca/heritage-savings-trust-fund It would be bigger without Canada limiting our export ability and taking money from us for equalization though.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

It's just wild to sit in Alberta and push to become a Russian-style oligarchic petrostate.

dismalaf 1y ago

What makes you think we'd resemble Russia more than, say, Norway?

SauciestGNU 1y ago
The general right-wing friendliness of the movement. If not fully Russian-style kleptocratic petrostate then at least American style fascism. If the Alberta conservatives were courting European relationships that would be one thing, but it sure seems like the Alberta and Canadian conservatives in general are fellow travelers with the russo-hungaro-american-etc authoritarian nationalists.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  Literally one government ago we elected a leftist party. Separation goes back way further than Danielle Smith.
  - SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
    One government, but two elections and due to a split in the right. And "leftist" is... generous.
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      There is nothing left of the NDP except the literal communist parties that get like 0.001% of the vote... How is that not leftist?
      - Sprocklem 1y ago
        The Alberta NDP under Notley was a centrist party and its policies were far more aligned with the federal liberals than the federal NDP. Obviously, there has been a change in leadership, but I don't see any reason to believe that the Alberta NDP will be any less centrist under Nenshi.
      - wussboy 1y ago
        Having nothing on your left doesn’t make you leftist. If I drive in the right hand lane and there’s nothing on my left, I am not driving in the left hand lane.
  - throw0101b 1y ago
    > Literally one government ago we elected a leftist party. Over the last (say) 50 years, how many left-leaning governments have there been in government? It's basically been right-ish since Lougheed in 1971: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta#List_of_premiers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta#Li... Notley was in for less than four years: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta_by_time_in_office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_premiers_of_Alberta_by...
jagger27 1y ago
There was plenty of opportunity for a sovereign wealth fund for decades within Alberta and for all of Canada. You’re saying now it’s only on the table that the filthy liberal coastal elites won’t be on the unfair dole? The unaccountable extra-national corporations who control most of Alberta’s oil production won’t suddenly become more generous and compliant to the needs of Albertans upon separation. You don’t have the balls or the leverage to control them. The province will have less leverage in the long run than before without the other two thirds of Canada’s economy to lever with in trade deals. The main selling point it seems is to make the rest of Canada suffer as hard as possible. Make no mistake, we absolutely will suffer from the withdrawal of being cut off that black tar we’re addicted to from you. But you’re far more addicted to it than the rest of us are. What comes after?
- dismalaf 1y ago
  Alberta has a wealth fund... We've also paid $67 billion to the rest of Canada in equalization payments...
  - jagger27 1y ago
    Alberta _had_ a sovereign wealth fund. What happened to it? Equalization payments don’t explain of the collapse of the once huge fund. It sure didn’t buy much local diversification! You’d think Alberta would be more like Norway already then. Instead you have lifted pickup trucks and tailings ponds. Even more wealth won’t solve the cultural bankruptcy that’s making the province upset enough to consider separation to begin with. To answer your original question, that’s why I think it’ll be more like Russia.
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      > Alberta _had_ a sovereign wealth fund. What happened to it? It's literally still there. You just need to pay attention: https://www.alberta.ca/heritage-savings-trust-fund https://www.alberta.ca/heritage-savings-trust-fund It would be bigger without Canada limiting our export ability and taking money from us for equalization though.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]