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So you don't count the iOS and Android OS'es as cathedrals ? Have you never wondered about their surprisingly coherent APIs and wondered why that was so differ

by phkamp 14y ago

So you don't count the iOS and Android OS'es as cathedrals ? Have you never wondered about their surprisingly coherent APIs and wondered why that was so different from, say, UNIX ? See my other comment about knowing what a cathedral is to begin with.

calinet6 14y ago
Fair, but I would describe them more as well-engineered skyscrapers. Or even simply good city planning. They're large structures designed around the idea of flexibility and growth from the outside. Ironically, both of these described platforms have orders of magnitude more functionality in their 'bazaar' app-stores than the foundation itself. The foundation enables the market to work, but in itself it is simply a very well-designed support system. I guess you're saying that there's no reason UNIX should be different—that it has somehow become a disorganized mess of libraries and code re-use, and that it is broken. I don't see this. Android and iOS are like brand new cities; Dubai and Abu Dhabi. UNIX is Paris. Perhaps you can make some updates to the city infrastructure, but in the end the streets are still cobblestone underneath, designed for horse carts and not cars. But you have the Notre Dame at the center (ironically, a cathedral), the architecture, tons of history, you have a thriving culture and countless people working and playing in this city every single day with great success. You can complain about it all you want, but there is a reason that people are fundamentally attracted to it. I think you're right about a lot of things, but if you propose rebuilding Paris, well, you may have some opposition. I think you might want to build a new city, rather than trying to build over very old history with some ideal of the cathedral you think it should have been. And to use your examples again, that strategy has been very successful for Android and iOS.
- phkamp 14y ago
  And now you are starting to see what is meant by "cathedral": Not a place of religious worship, but a construct with a coherent vision. Read Brooks book.
  - calinet6 14y ago
    I knew exactly what you meant by "cathedral," I simply extended the metaphor even further because I thought it was quite strikingly appropriate. Will do, thanks for the thought-provoking article.
- justincormack 14y ago
  Paris was substantially redesigned as a planned city by Haussmann[1]. London is a better example where the street plan is pretty much unchanged. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmanns_renovation_of_Paris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmanns_renovation_of_Paris
  - reledi 14y ago
    Working link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Par...

by phkamp 14y ago

calinet6 14y ago

Fair, but I would describe them more as well-engineered skyscrapers. Or even simply good city planning. They're large structures designed around the idea of flexibility and growth from the outside. Ironically, both of these described platforms have orders of magnitude more functionality in their 'bazaar' app-stores than the foundation itself. The foundation enables the market to work, but in itself it is simply a very well-designed support system. I guess you're saying that there's no reason UNIX should be different—that it has somehow become a disorganized mess of libraries and code re-use, and that it is broken. I don't see this. Android and iOS are like brand new cities; Dubai and Abu Dhabi. UNIX is Paris. Perhaps you can make some updates to the city infrastructure, but in the end the streets are still cobblestone underneath, designed for horse carts and not cars. But you have the Notre Dame at the center (ironically, a cathedral), the architecture, tons of history, you have a thriving culture and countless people working and playing in this city every single day with great success. You can complain about it all you want, but there is a reason that people are fundamentally attracted to it. I think you're right about a lot of things, but if you propose rebuilding Paris, well, you may have some opposition. I think you might want to build a new city, rather than trying to build over very old history with some ideal of the cathedral you think it should have been. And to use your examples again, that strategy has been very successful for Android and iOS.

phkamp 14y ago
And now you are starting to see what is meant by "cathedral": Not a place of religious worship, but a construct with a coherent vision. Read Brooks book.
- calinet6 14y ago
  I knew exactly what you meant by "cathedral," I simply extended the metaphor even further because I thought it was quite strikingly appropriate. Will do, thanks for the thought-provoking article.
justincormack 14y ago
Paris was substantially redesigned as a planned city by Haussmann[1]. London is a better example where the street plan is pretty much unchanged. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmanns_renovation_of_Paris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmanns_renovation_of_Paris
- reledi 14y ago
  Working link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Par...