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As a born Albertan, it's not unpopular. The current separatists aren't popular politicians per se, but the idea we should push for a new plan with the feds lik

As a born Albertan, it's not unpopular. The current separatists aren't popular politicians per se, but the idea we should push for a new plan with the feds like Quebec and the idea of separation itself is more popular than ever. And yes, the people funding it have deep pockets. It's the oil industry. You know what else though? The oil industry bankrolls nearly everything in Alberta. Oil royalties are the reason we don't have PST. It employs hundreds of thousands. That money then supports construction, services, etc... Anyone who was in Alberta when oil was booming knows exactly what it does for the province. Also, it's Canada's #1 export. It keeps the dollar at least almost respectable. And billions get taken from Alberta to pay for the welfare of Canadians in other provinces. Alberta's GDP per capita is literally 35% higher than Canada's... And that's with them kneecapping us...

YZF 1y ago
What's in this for the oil industry? Not sure that oil companies actively working for separatism makes sense. What would be the consequences if it becomes public that they're doing this? What sort of pull do the oil companies have over NY Times and other media that's reverberating this? Money pours in when oil prices are high. That's not exactly under Alberta's control. What happens when there's an energy bear market? What is the push towards alternative energy going to do in the long run? Also Alberta is landlocked which would make exporting oil more difficult if Alberta becomes a country. One of PP's talking point (not wrong IMO) was that not having invested in being able to export to non-US customers was forcing Canada to sell oil for lower prices to the US. EDIT: another random thought is that a lot of labor in Alberta came from out of the province. How is separating going to impact that?
- BJones12 1y ago
  > What's in this for the oil industry? The ability to sell more oil at a higher price, and to lose less of the revenue as tax.
- rfrey 1y ago
  Low royalties compared to other jurisdictions, with the possibility of them going lower with an "independent" government comprised of their surrogates. Complete socialization of externalities: for example oil companies are flagrantly ignoring their legal obligations to clean up abandoned sites, and the current government is moving to assume the liability for them. Having that and similar cost offloading happen without the pesky federal courts interfering is worth some investment.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  Honestly, the ideal isn't separatism, but for Canada to end interprovincial tariffs, allow Alberta to transport oil to the coast unimpeded. Europe is basically begging for oil and gas to replace Russia, but Quebec is blocking any pipelines going east.
  - YZF 1y ago
    I totally agree with that. And really that's what the Conservatives were saying and grudgingly the Liberals adopted but we'll see if they can execute. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-canada-oil-trans-mountain-pipeline-1.7537530 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-canada-oil-trans-moun...
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      And now we really need a pipeline going east... Our European allies just asked for it at the G7 again yesterday.
SauciestGNU 1y ago
It's just wild to sit in Alberta and push to become a Russian-style oligarchic petrostate.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  What makes you think we'd resemble Russia more than, say, Norway?
  - SauciestGNU 1y ago
    The general right-wing friendliness of the movement. If not fully Russian-style kleptocratic petrostate then at least American style fascism. If the Alberta conservatives were courting European relationships that would be one thing, but it sure seems like the Alberta and Canadian conservatives in general are fellow travelers with the russo-hungaro-american-etc authoritarian nationalists.
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      Literally one government ago we elected a leftist party. Separation goes back way further than Danielle Smith.
      - SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
        One government, but two elections and due to a split in the right. And "leftist" is... generous.
        dismalaf 1y ago
        There is nothing left of the NDP except the literal communist parties that get like 0.001% of the vote... How is that not leftist?
        Sprocklem 1y ago
        The Alberta NDP under Notley was a centrist party and its policies were far more aligned with the federal liberals than the federal NDP. Obviously, there has been a change in leadership, but I don't see any reason to believe that the Alberta NDP will be any less centrist under Nenshi.
nonchalantsui 1y ago
Alberta does not pay for the welfare of Canadians in other provinces, it has never paid towards any equalization systems. It has taken billions in debt though, including during COVID when oil flatlined. The reason Danielle et al were cozying up to US politicians at private events, pushing narratives like embracing America's new direction, isn't for independence or a new federal plan - it's to become the 51st state.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/equalization.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal... From the horse's mouth... There's a nice chart at the bottom to show how much each province pays, and which provinces receive equalization payments (it's in red). Alberta pays 50% more per capita than any Eastern province and doesn't receive equalization (obviously).
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
wussboy 1y ago
I have lived in Alberta for the last thirty years, but I see myself as a Canadian. The “us vs them” you embrace makes no sense to me because that’s not where I draw my circles. Alberta is not being robbed by Canada in the same way that me moving funds from checking to savings isn’t robbing my checking account. Everyone can draw a circle such that they feel aggrieved. But that’s no great feat, nor is it commendable.

YZF 1y ago

What's in this for the oil industry? Not sure that oil companies actively working for separatism makes sense. What would be the consequences if it becomes public that they're doing this? What sort of pull do the oil companies have over NY Times and other media that's reverberating this? Money pours in when oil prices are high. That's not exactly under Alberta's control. What happens when there's an energy bear market? What is the push towards alternative energy going to do in the long run? Also Alberta is landlocked which would make exporting oil more difficult if Alberta becomes a country. One of PP's talking point (not wrong IMO) was that not having invested in being able to export to non-US customers was forcing Canada to sell oil for lower prices to the US. EDIT: another random thought is that a lot of labor in Alberta came from out of the province. How is separating going to impact that?

BJones12 1y ago
> What's in this for the oil industry? The ability to sell more oil at a higher price, and to lose less of the revenue as tax.
rfrey 1y ago
Low royalties compared to other jurisdictions, with the possibility of them going lower with an "independent" government comprised of their surrogates. Complete socialization of externalities: for example oil companies are flagrantly ignoring their legal obligations to clean up abandoned sites, and the current government is moving to assume the liability for them. Having that and similar cost offloading happen without the pesky federal courts interfering is worth some investment.
dismalaf 1y ago
Honestly, the ideal isn't separatism, but for Canada to end interprovincial tariffs, allow Alberta to transport oil to the coast unimpeded. Europe is basically begging for oil and gas to replace Russia, but Quebec is blocking any pipelines going east.
- YZF 1y ago
  I totally agree with that. And really that's what the Conservatives were saying and grudgingly the Liberals adopted but we'll see if they can execute. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-canada-oil-trans-mountain-pipeline-1.7537530 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-canada-oil-trans-moun...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    And now we really need a pipeline going east... Our European allies just asked for it at the G7 again yesterday.

SauciestGNU 1y ago

It's just wild to sit in Alberta and push to become a Russian-style oligarchic petrostate.

dismalaf 1y ago
What makes you think we'd resemble Russia more than, say, Norway?
- SauciestGNU 1y ago
  The general right-wing friendliness of the movement. If not fully Russian-style kleptocratic petrostate then at least American style fascism. If the Alberta conservatives were courting European relationships that would be one thing, but it sure seems like the Alberta and Canadian conservatives in general are fellow travelers with the russo-hungaro-american-etc authoritarian nationalists.
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    Literally one government ago we elected a leftist party. Separation goes back way further than Danielle Smith.
    - SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
      One government, but two elections and due to a split in the right. And "leftist" is... generous.
      - dismalaf 1y ago
        There is nothing left of the NDP except the literal communist parties that get like 0.001% of the vote... How is that not leftist?
        Sprocklem 1y ago
        The Alberta NDP under Notley was a centrist party and its policies were far more aligned with the federal liberals than the federal NDP. Obviously, there has been a change in leadership, but I don't see any reason to believe that the Alberta NDP will be any less centrist under Nenshi.

nonchalantsui 1y ago

Alberta does not pay for the welfare of Canadians in other provinces, it has never paid towards any equalization systems. It has taken billions in debt though, including during COVID when oil flatlined. The reason Danielle et al were cozying up to US politicians at private events, pushing narratives like embracing America's new direction, isn't for independence or a new federal plan - it's to become the 51st state.

dismalaf 1y ago
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/equalization.html https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal... From the horse's mouth... There's a nice chart at the bottom to show how much each province pays, and which provinces receive equalization payments (it's in red). Alberta pays 50% more per capita than any Eastern province and doesn't receive equalization (obviously).
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

wussboy 1y ago

I have lived in Alberta for the last thirty years, but I see myself as a Canadian. The “us vs them” you embrace makes no sense to me because that’s not where I draw my circles. Alberta is not being robbed by Canada in the same way that me moving funds from checking to savings isn’t robbing my checking account. Everyone can draw a circle such that they feel aggrieved. But that’s no great feat, nor is it commendable.