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Existing on the living standards of say, 1945, or even 1960, is very possible and allows you to make less money and presumably work on what you truly care about

Existing on the living standards of say, 1945, or even 1960, is very possible and allows you to make less money and presumably work on what you truly care about. But that means you don’t get the latest iPhone, cook basic foods at home and rarely eat out, repair your own appliances, and so on. The hardest part, I think, would be dealing with the social expectations of society at large. 1960 living standards were universal in 1960, but nowadays you’re fighting the entirety of Western marketing machine.

NegativeK 1y ago
I think the author is very comfortable fighting the Western marketing machine. I also don't think they are capable of understanding why other people have other needs.
kemotep 1y ago
Do you forgo modern medicine?
giraffe_lady 1y ago
You would not be able to afford any kind of property insurance or medical care with this budget. You won't be able to have a well dug or a septic system maintained either. We're going back a few decades farther than 1945 to make this work I think.
jedimastert 1y ago
> 1960 living standards were universal in 1960 Universal for whom? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
- keiferski 1y ago
  I wrote that to imply that the living standards of 1960 were normal in 1960, but wouldn’t be normal today. Don’t over-focus on the word universal and miss the point I was making.
  - jedimastert 1y ago
    And don't miss the point that I'm making, which is that the standards of living in 1960 for some people was built on the back of exploiting others.
    - keiferski 1y ago
      Sigh. Again, that has nothing to do with my comment. My point was that living standards at X point in the past were normal for the time but aren’t normal for today. 1960 was a random year I picked. The point is that if one can manage to live “behind the times” materially, life is cheaper.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
ribcage 1y ago
[dead]
dmonitor 1y ago
> that means you don’t get the latest iPhone Why do people always have to call out "the latest iPhone". Most people can't afford the latest iPhone, nor do they try. You might as well say a Lamborghini. Why can't you be honest and just say "a smartphone".
- kemotep 1y ago
  Even a brand new iPhone 16 is “only” $800. Plans for unlimited internet can be had for less than $40 a month. Using that phone for 5 years would only add like $60 to their total monthly expenses. Is that truly unattainable? Is that really what is keeping people from buying a house?
  - smileysteve 1y ago
    $60 is ~14% of the monthly budget, so yeah, I think that would make an impact.
  - AngryData 1y ago
    That is a shit ton of money for someone living in a poor rural area living on the bare minimum. It is only cheap if you are living in a city where you are earning far more money.
  - MinimalAction 1y ago
    I do believe that's a privilege to throw an extra $60 per month at something for five years straight. It's not truly stopping us from buying a house, but this mentality that everything could be bought on credit, this consumerism is where we are hurt.
    - kemotep 1y ago
      They sell phones and data plans for cash that you prepay for. The 50-60 bucks was taking a monthly amortization over what would likely be a few thousand dollars upfront in expenses. Paying thousands upfront and using something for 5-6 years versus buying on credit for zero dollars down from the consumer perspective can have the same costs. Maybe it is more beneficial to not use credit long term. But unless you are also paying cash upfront you need credit and a credit history to buy a house.
danans 1y ago
> But that means you don’t get the latest iPhone, cook basic foods at home and rarely eat out, repair your own appliances, and so on. You can save quite a bit of money by living this way even in high CoL areas. That's how a lot of people without high incomes in those areas get by - by getting handy and resourceful. Through that, they often develop/discover talents and skills, and save a lot of expenses. For my part, I've done all my own landscaping, installed/repaired/maintained my home appliances, built my kitchen cabinetry and other furniture, etc. I estimate these efforts have saved me at least 100k over the years, probably much more. I don't think it's nearly enough to offset the housing, education and healthcare unaffordability crises, but it's a way in which regular workers get by. However, the call-Uber/Doordash/Handyman for everything lifestyle isn't something that works unless you are highly paid and have no kids.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
The point is that you don’t need many of those things to have good quality of life. Not having a TV or being on social media would help a lot with resisting the relentless consumerist pressure.

NegativeK 1y ago

I think the author is very comfortable fighting the Western marketing machine. I also don't think they are capable of understanding why other people have other needs.

kemotep 1y ago

Do you forgo modern medicine?

giraffe_lady 1y ago

You would not be able to afford any kind of property insurance or medical care with this budget. You won't be able to have a well dug or a septic system maintained either. We're going back a few decades farther than 1945 to make this work I think.

jedimastert 1y ago

> 1960 living standards were universal in 1960 Universal for whom? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

keiferski 1y ago
I wrote that to imply that the living standards of 1960 were normal in 1960, but wouldn’t be normal today. Don’t over-focus on the word universal and miss the point I was making.
- jedimastert 1y ago
  And don't miss the point that I'm making, which is that the standards of living in 1960 for some people was built on the back of exploiting others.
  - keiferski 1y ago
    Sigh. Again, that has nothing to do with my comment. My point was that living standards at X point in the past were normal for the time but aren’t normal for today. 1960 was a random year I picked. The point is that if one can manage to live “behind the times” materially, life is cheaper.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]

ribcage 1y ago

[dead]

dmonitor 1y ago

> that means you don’t get the latest iPhone Why do people always have to call out "the latest iPhone". Most people can't afford the latest iPhone, nor do they try. You might as well say a Lamborghini. Why can't you be honest and just say "a smartphone".

kemotep 1y ago
Even a brand new iPhone 16 is “only” $800. Plans for unlimited internet can be had for less than $40 a month. Using that phone for 5 years would only add like $60 to their total monthly expenses. Is that truly unattainable? Is that really what is keeping people from buying a house?
- smileysteve 1y ago
  $60 is ~14% of the monthly budget, so yeah, I think that would make an impact.
- AngryData 1y ago
  That is a shit ton of money for someone living in a poor rural area living on the bare minimum. It is only cheap if you are living in a city where you are earning far more money.
- MinimalAction 1y ago
  I do believe that's a privilege to throw an extra $60 per month at something for five years straight. It's not truly stopping us from buying a house, but this mentality that everything could be bought on credit, this consumerism is where we are hurt.
  - kemotep 1y ago
    They sell phones and data plans for cash that you prepay for. The 50-60 bucks was taking a monthly amortization over what would likely be a few thousand dollars upfront in expenses. Paying thousands upfront and using something for 5-6 years versus buying on credit for zero dollars down from the consumer perspective can have the same costs. Maybe it is more beneficial to not use credit long term. But unless you are also paying cash upfront you need credit and a credit history to buy a house.

danans 1y ago

> But that means you don’t get the latest iPhone, cook basic foods at home and rarely eat out, repair your own appliances, and so on. You can save quite a bit of money by living this way even in high CoL areas. That's how a lot of people without high incomes in those areas get by - by getting handy and resourceful. Through that, they often develop/discover talents and skills, and save a lot of expenses. For my part, I've done all my own landscaping, installed/repaired/maintained my home appliances, built my kitchen cabinetry and other furniture, etc. I estimate these efforts have saved me at least 100k over the years, probably much more. I don't think it's nearly enough to offset the housing, education and healthcare unaffordability crises, but it's a way in which regular workers get by. However, the call-Uber/Doordash/Handyman for everything lifestyle isn't something that works unless you are highly paid and have no kids.

insane_dreamer 1y ago

The point is that you don’t need many of those things to have good quality of life. Not having a TV or being on social media would help a lot with resisting the relentless consumerist pressure.