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Years ago I built something similar, a Pub/Sub notification system: https://github.com/huqedato/qnotix https://github.com/huqedato/qnotix. It is still running (

Years ago I built something similar, a Pub/Sub notification system: https://github.com/huqedato/qnotix https://github.com/huqedato/qnotix. It is still running (with small modifications), in production, at my ex-customer. Such a pity the industry (customers) reacts with skepticism every time I propose solutions based in Elixir/Erlang. I always hear: "Elixir, what? We want Java/.Net/Python/php"

jbverschoor 1y ago
It means they don't trust your judgement, aka you're just there to execute their plans. You're the floor guy, not the architect, owner, or developer of a house.
- huqedato 1y ago
  Not really. I am usually the one they pay to solve their problems. It's not a matter of trusting my judgement, rather they are trapped in an institutional/corporate mindset (old patterns are most suitable, 'best practice', 'reliable, proven tech' and such)
  - stonemetal12 1y ago
    > I am usually the one they pay to solve their problems. In the context that doesn't really say a lot, they pay the floor guy and the architect to solve problems, just different problems. >they are trapped in an institutional/corporate mindset (old patterns are most suitable, 'best practice', 'reliable, proven tech' and such) While true, it is also correct. From their perspective Elixir is an exotic material, the next "one they pay to solve their problems" is not going to know how to work with it, scrap it, and start over. Therefore the Elixir solution isn't a good solution for them. As a business man once told me, "I never saw a feature I liked so much that I was wiling to pay for it twice."
icedchai 1y ago
The problem is finding other people to work in less mainstream languages. Probably not an issue right now, but during better times...
- atonse 1y ago
  Yup I would be concerned about how easy it is to find people. And I say this as an elixir employer and whose company has done only elixir projects for 8 years. In all cases though, our client just wanted us to solve a problem and didn’t care how we did it. So we’ve been very lucky. But have also earned their trust over the years by delivering.
freedomben 1y ago
I've run into this a few times before too. Sometimes discussing maintenance/ongoing costs and how minimal they are with an Elixir/Phoenix app can be compelling, though not always. I prefer to be over-transparent with clients so I'll usually add that if they plan to switch contractors often then it's probably not (tho sometimes still is) a good idea to go with Elixir. When I compare the amount of ongoing effort to keep a PHP, Node, or Python app running securely in prod with the ongoing effort with a Phoenix app, it's usually a better deal for them. The one Danger Zone area though is when they want something between WordPress and a "real" app. A lot of the clients I've talked to already have WordPress and are really trying to stretch the framework to places it isn't really made to go. Those customers often think "I should be able to get a full app built for <=$10,000" and often shop around until they find someone who will accept it, and then they usually end up getting a bad/buggy product that is slow as dirt. At that point it's often too late as well because nobody wants to pay to start over. For those clients though I wouldn't recommend Elixir because they would almost rather spend more in maintenance costs than in initial development because the numbers feel smaller when spread out, even if they add up to more in the long run and with a much worse product. That is not to say of course that any Elixir app is going to be better - there are bad Elixir devs just like any stack, though I think Elixir's relative lack of popularity actually leads to an overall more skilled dev pool.
epolanski 1y ago
Well, you might be leaving them with the burden of having to maintain it themselves or finding elixir talent so it's a valid concern.

jbverschoor 1y ago

It means they don't trust your judgement, aka you're just there to execute their plans. You're the floor guy, not the architect, owner, or developer of a house.

huqedato 1y ago
Not really. I am usually the one they pay to solve their problems. It's not a matter of trusting my judgement, rather they are trapped in an institutional/corporate mindset (old patterns are most suitable, 'best practice', 'reliable, proven tech' and such)
- stonemetal12 1y ago
  > I am usually the one they pay to solve their problems. In the context that doesn't really say a lot, they pay the floor guy and the architect to solve problems, just different problems. >they are trapped in an institutional/corporate mindset (old patterns are most suitable, 'best practice', 'reliable, proven tech' and such) While true, it is also correct. From their perspective Elixir is an exotic material, the next "one they pay to solve their problems" is not going to know how to work with it, scrap it, and start over. Therefore the Elixir solution isn't a good solution for them. As a business man once told me, "I never saw a feature I liked so much that I was wiling to pay for it twice."

icedchai 1y ago

The problem is finding other people to work in less mainstream languages. Probably not an issue right now, but during better times...

atonse 1y ago
Yup I would be concerned about how easy it is to find people. And I say this as an elixir employer and whose company has done only elixir projects for 8 years. In all cases though, our client just wanted us to solve a problem and didn’t care how we did it. So we’ve been very lucky. But have also earned their trust over the years by delivering.

freedomben 1y ago

I've run into this a few times before too. Sometimes discussing maintenance/ongoing costs and how minimal they are with an Elixir/Phoenix app can be compelling, though not always. I prefer to be over-transparent with clients so I'll usually add that if they plan to switch contractors often then it's probably not (tho sometimes still is) a good idea to go with Elixir. When I compare the amount of ongoing effort to keep a PHP, Node, or Python app running securely in prod with the ongoing effort with a Phoenix app, it's usually a better deal for them. The one Danger Zone area though is when they want something between WordPress and a "real" app. A lot of the clients I've talked to already have WordPress and are really trying to stretch the framework to places it isn't really made to go. Those customers often think "I should be able to get a full app built for <=$10,000" and often shop around until they find someone who will accept it, and then they usually end up getting a bad/buggy product that is slow as dirt. At that point it's often too late as well because nobody wants to pay to start over. For those clients though I wouldn't recommend Elixir because they would almost rather spend more in maintenance costs than in initial development because the numbers feel smaller when spread out, even if they add up to more in the long run and with a much worse product. That is not to say of course that any Elixir app is going to be better - there are bad Elixir devs just like any stack, though I think Elixir's relative lack of popularity actually leads to an overall more skilled dev pool.

epolanski 1y ago

Well, you might be leaving them with the burden of having to maintain it themselves or finding elixir talent so it's a valid concern.