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I haven't noticed this but maybe you can find out by emailing the mods.

by pvg 1y ago

aspenmayer 1y ago
I’m sure that I could, and I could faithfully transcribe their reply, and you’d just have to take my word for it. Why would I want to insert myself as an intermediary between the moderators and the community that they moderate?
- pvg 1y ago
  It’s you who’s asking, not the community? Like, insertion already happened - most meta posts aren’t interesting to most people which is why the convention is to address them to the people who can answer them.
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    I’m asking because I noticed the change and was curious if anyone else on HN had noticed. I’m sure that the mods would notice in such a case, so that confirmation or denial would only provide authoritativeness to the answer, and such a valid answer would yet bring us no closer to the truth we seek, which is the awareness and impact of such knowledge on the community. By posing the question as I have, we get the confirmation for free, but by posing it your way, we could bring more heat than light to the discussion through the indirection.
    - pvg 1y ago
      Right but there's no 'we' here. You made up the 'we'. The person interested in this is you. It's not even clear the thing you think is happening is happening. You can just ask and if something did happen and you think it's important, you could try telling everyone maybe? Pretty much the premise behind 'mail the mods', no?
      - aspenmayer 1y ago
        > Right but there's no 'we' here. You made up the 'we'. The person interested in this is you. It's not even clear the thing you think is happening is happening. You can just ask and if something did happen and you think it's important, you could try telling everyone maybe? Pretty much the premise behind 'mail the mods', no? We're all interested in this by virtue of discussing it. It's clear the thing that happened did happen independently of my beliefs about it. Your comments verge on gaslighting mixed with solipsism and are definitely not steelmanning my points here. I think it's important, or I wouldn't have made my post. Considering your long history on the site, and obvious familiarity with the guidelines, I would consider your argumentative style in this thread to be in bad faith.
        pvg 1y ago
        We're all interested in this by virtue of discussing it. No, I don't think that's true at all. It's the whole premise of a crowdsourced/curated forum, that there is some 'we' that is not, in fact, interested in 'everything' - hence the curation, the votes, the rules, the moderation, the non-infinite-scrolling front page. It's clear the thing that happened did happen independently of my beliefs about it You should find out how clear that is by asking the people who can clarify it. That's all.
        aspenmayer 1y ago
        >> We're all interested in this by virtue of discussing it. > No, I don't think that's true at all. It's the whole premise of crowdsourced/curated forum, that there is some 'we' that is not, in fact, interested in 'everything' - hence the curation, the votes, the rules, the moderation, the non-infinite-scrolling front page. Yes, I was speaking inclusively of those people who have affirmatively expressed interest, whether it be via upvoting or commenting. Disagreement about the post or other engagement counts as expressing interest for the purposes of this discussion. We, as in you (pvg) and I (aspenmayer), specifically are interested in this post by dint and by virtue of discussing it, because it hasn't been dismissed out of hand. >> It's clear the thing that happened did happen independently of my beliefs about it > You should find out how clear that is by asking the people who can clarify it. That's all. I am asking the people who can clarify it (HN moderators) on the site they moderate (Hacker News). HN mods are HN users also. If you're not interested in my comments, you aren't obligated to reply if you can't be constructive and curious. I can't speak to your intent, but the effect you are having on me is anything but that. In polite conversation like HN, your intent matters, but the effects of your communication matter, also. It feels to me like you're concern trolling, ostensibly on behalf of HN, but that's not really consistent with the guidelines' admonition to encourage posts that increase in curiosity as they progress. This is not meant as a personal jab at you, as I do think of you positively on this site, and yet, to not mention how I feel you're coming across would be unfair to you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)#Concern_troll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)#Concern_troll > [Concern trolls] profess a commitment to social change for ideals of justice, equality, and opportunity, and then abstain from and discourage all effective action for change. They are known by their brand, 'I agree with your ends but not your means'. In the absence of any clear guideline on the protocol for asking HN users (including mods, who are users first) about their experience of using HN, I know of no better venue for my question. Like, just assume that I emailed them also, or instead, and that I'm sharing it after the fact, if it helps you to relate to my post in good faith on the merits any post which is on-topic and within guidelines, like mine, deserves.

I haven't noticed this but maybe you can find out by emailing the mods.

by pvg 1y ago

I haven't noticed this but maybe you can find out by emailing the mods.

I’m sure that I could, and I could faithfully transcribe their reply, and you’d just have to take my word for it. Why would I want to insert myself as an intermediary between the moderators and the community that they moderate?

pvg 1y ago
It’s you who’s asking, not the community? Like, insertion already happened - most meta posts aren’t interesting to most people which is why the convention is to address them to the people who can answer them.
- aspenmayer 1y ago
  I’m asking because I noticed the change and was curious if anyone else on HN had noticed. I’m sure that the mods would notice in such a case, so that confirmation or denial would only provide authoritativeness to the answer, and such a valid answer would yet bring us no closer to the truth we seek, which is the awareness and impact of such knowledge on the community. By posing the question as I have, we get the confirmation for free, but by posing it your way, we could bring more heat than light to the discussion through the indirection.
  - pvg 1y ago
    Right but there's no 'we' here. You made up the 'we'. The person interested in this is you. It's not even clear the thing you think is happening is happening. You can just ask and if something did happen and you think it's important, you could try telling everyone maybe? Pretty much the premise behind 'mail the mods', no?
    - aspenmayer 1y ago
      > Right but there's no 'we' here. You made up the 'we'. The person interested in this is you. It's not even clear the thing you think is happening is happening. You can just ask and if something did happen and you think it's important, you could try telling everyone maybe? Pretty much the premise behind 'mail the mods', no? We're all interested in this by virtue of discussing it. It's clear the thing that happened did happen independently of my beliefs about it. Your comments verge on gaslighting mixed with solipsism and are definitely not steelmanning my points here. I think it's important, or I wouldn't have made my post. Considering your long history on the site, and obvious familiarity with the guidelines, I would consider your argumentative style in this thread to be in bad faith.
      - pvg 1y ago
        We're all interested in this by virtue of discussing it. No, I don't think that's true at all. It's the whole premise of a crowdsourced/curated forum, that there is some 'we' that is not, in fact, interested in 'everything' - hence the curation, the votes, the rules, the moderation, the non-infinite-scrolling front page. It's clear the thing that happened did happen independently of my beliefs about it You should find out how clear that is by asking the people who can clarify it. That's all.
        aspenmayer 1y ago
        >> We're all interested in this by virtue of discussing it. > No, I don't think that's true at all. It's the whole premise of crowdsourced/curated forum, that there is some 'we' that is not, in fact, interested in 'everything' - hence the curation, the votes, the rules, the moderation, the non-infinite-scrolling front page. Yes, I was speaking inclusively of those people who have affirmatively expressed interest, whether it be via upvoting or commenting. Disagreement about the post or other engagement counts as expressing interest for the purposes of this discussion. We, as in you (pvg) and I (aspenmayer), specifically are interested in this post by dint and by virtue of discussing it, because it hasn't been dismissed out of hand. >> It's clear the thing that happened did happen independently of my beliefs about it > You should find out how clear that is by asking the people who can clarify it. That's all. I am asking the people who can clarify it (HN moderators) on the site they moderate (Hacker News). HN mods are HN users also. If you're not interested in my comments, you aren't obligated to reply if you can't be constructive and curious. I can't speak to your intent, but the effect you are having on me is anything but that. In polite conversation like HN, your intent matters, but the effects of your communication matter, also. It feels to me like you're concern trolling, ostensibly on behalf of HN, but that's not really consistent with the guidelines' admonition to encourage posts that increase in curiosity as they progress. This is not meant as a personal jab at you, as I do think of you positively on this site, and yet, to not mention how I feel you're coming across would be unfair to you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)#Concern_troll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)#Concern_troll > [Concern trolls] profess a commitment to social change for ideals of justice, equality, and opportunity, and then abstain from and discourage all effective action for change. They are known by their brand, 'I agree with your ends but not your means'. In the absence of any clear guideline on the protocol for asking HN users (including mods, who are users first) about their experience of using HN, I know of no better venue for my question. Like, just assume that I emailed them also, or instead, and that I'm sharing it after the fact, if it helps you to relate to my post in good faith on the merits any post which is on-topic and within guidelines, like mine, deserves.