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Fermentation is such wonderful technology. It both preserves and makes things more delicious.
by NelsonMinar 1y ago
Fermentation is such wonderful technology. It both preserves and makes things more delicious.
- carabiner 1y agoIt also makes things rotten. The difference between spoilage and fermentation/aging is whether humans like the result at the end.
- tough 1y agoSame could be said of fire and burnt food
- dlisboa 1y agoThe difference is whether humans get ill or not.
- charcircuit 1y agoPeople get ill from alcohol, yet it's called fermentation.
- algorias 1y agoNo, people get ill from excessive quantities of alcohol.
- literalAardvark 1y agoAcetaldehyde is always toxic, so no, they always get sick, just less sick.
- bobxmax 1y agoGetting drunk is literally poisoning yourself. Some humans just happen to enjoy the symptoms of said poison.
- accrual 1y agoKind of reminds me of dolphins taking turns chewing on pufferfish, apparently for fun/altered states. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-seem-to-use-toxic-pufferfish-to-get-high-180948219/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-seem-to-u...
- nitwit005 1y agoMost people aren't getting drunk every time they drink. Try wine and grape juice side by side. Baring truly awful wine, the wine will taste better (I suppose you could have awful grape juice too, but, you get the idea).
- bobxmax 1y agoSure, but if alcohol didn't get you drunk consumption would plummet 95%.
- OJFord 1y agoI wouldn't be so sure... I'm certain my own would increase. (Assuming 'get you drunk' means something like 'contain ethanol' i.e. no 'buzz' or whatever but also no adverse effect on liver, the next day, ...). If you want a cold drink that isn't sweet, your choices are pretty much alcohol, alcohol-free alternative, water.
- alisonatwork 1y agoTea and coffee don't have to be sweet either, and there are lots of cold versions of those.
- kranner 1y agoAlso plenty of traditional cold drinks that are savoury or can be savoury: doogh, ayran, lassi, jaljeera, buttermilk, kvass
- ceejayoz 1y agoThe line between spoiled and fermented… blurs, at times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl
- Carrok 1y agoWhat point are you even trying to make? The difference between gone bad and fermented is pretty obvious, but fine, don’t eat anything fermented if you like. I’ll be over here enjoying cheese, kimchi, beer, miso, pickles, sauerkraut, etc etc etc
- montebicyclelo 1y ago> The difference between spoilage and fermentation/aging is whether humans like the result at the end Is not whether it makes humans unwell quite an important factor..
- GoatInGrey 1y agoLiking the result at the end in a qualifier that encompasses "does not make me ill", "does not taste terrible", and various other factors.
- thebruce87m 1y agoEdit: nvm
- nkrisc 1y agoAnd veggies and meat begin decaying the moment they die. So what? The difference between spoilage and fermentation is whether it’s spoiled.
- talkingtab 1y agoWhat is fermentation really? It is a process whereby bacteria et al. process a food source, breaking it down. And the same process goes on inside your gut. Ouch, now there is spoilage for you! There is at least some research that says fermented foods have some benefits including reducing inflammation. My personal guess based on subjecting myself to more and more fermenting foods is that much of the obesity and many of the common health issues have to do with not eating enough fermenting foods. Just a guess based on a sample of one.
- elhudy 1y agoIn the case of this style of korean soy sauce, it is actually fungal enzymes from molds that colonized the meju slowly breaking down the proteins and starches over time, whilst being protected from outside forces by high salinity water. I realize you said "et al." but I couldn't help myself. There's very little bacterial activity going on in there.
- Beijinger 1y agoNo, fermentation is a process of enzymatic transformation. Black tea is fermented, for example. No need for bacteria.
- aziaziazi 1y agoI have to disagree: black tea only had an oxidation while fermented tea had an oxidation plus a fermentation by microbial activity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_tea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_tea The term "fermentation" is very often used buy common language to describe both fungic and microbial activity.
- Beijinger 1y ago1. Classical (Microbiological) Fermentation: This is the most common definition, especially in biology and food science: Fermentation is the metabolic process by which microorganisms (like bacteria or yeast) convert organic compounds—typically sugars—into other substances such as alcohol, acids, or gases. Examples: Yeast turning sugar into alcohol in beer or wine. Lactic acid bacteria fermenting lactose in yogurt. 2. Enzymatic (Non-Microbial) Fermentation: In certain fields, especially tea processing, cigar aging, or cocoa fermentation, the term fermentation is also used more broadly to describe biochemical changes driven by enzymes—either from the plant itself or from microorganisms. Examples: Tea (e.g., black tea): The so-called "fermentation" is actually oxidation catalyzed by enzymes in the tea leaves themselves (like polyphenol oxidase), with little to no microbial activity. Cigars (tobacco leaves): Enzymes within the tobacco leaf, often activated by warmth and moisture, cause internal biochemical transformations (not always microbial). Cocoa beans: Initially microbial fermentation, but internal enzymes in the bean also break down compounds, affecting flavor.
- bobsmooth 1y agoSo much of human society relies on the byproducts of other organisms. Pickles, bread, antibiotics.
- znt 1y agoYoghurt + Kefir + Kumis. Golden Horde conquered the known world fueled by milk byproducts.
- bigiain 1y agoSurely alcohol is by far the biggest example.
- bobxmax 1y agoAside but I've always hated the phrase "known world". It means "known to the Europeans"
- 0_____0 1y agoI think in this instance it means "known to the Mongols"
- dismalaf 1y ago"Known world" in the context of history usually means Eurasia + Africa. Basically all the places that aren't the new world and random islands in the middle of nowhere.
- bobxmax 1y agoKnown world does not usually mean Africa. It generally means Europe and central Asia... because that's the known world to European explorers. Oceania, Africa, the Americas are not included in that nomenclature usually.
- dismalaf 1y agoConsidering Rome ruled a bunch of Africa I'm pretty sure they knew about it...
- SwtCyber 1y agoIt's kinda wild how fermentation does both - keeps food from going bad and somehow makes it taste better. Like, who figured that out and thought, "Yeah, let’s just let this sit and see what happens"?
- agos 1y ago"let's make this stuff go bad, but in a good way" and somehow humans created cheese, soy sauce, wine, bread, pickles, chocolate...
- ljf 1y agoIsn't it more 'let's store this surplus' - then 'oh man it looks and smells different now but somehow better'. For example cheese was likely discovered when people tried transporting milk in water carrying bags made from sheep stomachs. While carrying water in them would be fine, putting milk in there for a couple of unrefrigerated days would lead to cheese from the rennet in sheep's stomach that would stay on in the vessel, even after it has been cleaned and even dried. Same with wine - let's store some fruit juices - it is pretty hard NOT to make wine unless you know about pasteurisation, and even if you do boil it, there are so many natural yeasts just ready to make wine. Grains that get wet actively want to produce beer :) Wholemeal flour is chock full of wild yeasts, and wants to become a sourdough starter if you just give it a little water and time.
- SwtCyber 1y agoYet now half our favorite foods owe their existence to it
- NelsonMinar 1y agoArguably our tastes evolved or adapted to enjoy the flavors of fermentation. And it's not universal: a lot of people don't like the smell of cheese, or natto, or even cucumber pickles. I love them all!
- kunwon1 1y agoI got into making hot sauces recently. I didn't really care for any of the results until I started fermenting them. Chop up ingredients, add brine, put everything in a jar with a fermentation lid that allows gas to escape. Then let it sit on the counter for a week or two. blend and maybe add a bit of vinegar. That's the basic process, and in my humble opinion, it's the absolute best way to make hot sauce (YMMV, do your own research, there are obviously risks to letting food sit out at room temperature for two weeks)