7 ms·

Invalidating citizenship is always a bad idea. Once it begins, it will lead to civil war. Once citizenship is granted, there is no reverting it.

BuckRogers 1y ago
Denaturalization has always been done and nothing new. The US government can revoke citizenship for those who obtained it fraudulently. This can happen if an individual made false statements or concealed material facts during the naturalization process. The government must prove "clear, convincing, and unequivocal evidence" of fraud to succeed in a denaturalization case. I'd expect more of this going forward.
- OutOfHere 1y ago
  And what does this have to do with a visa worker? Nothing. It's the government that allow lax policies for work visas. The fault here is not the worker's.
  - BuckRogers 1y ago
    I was responding to you. So you tell me. You did not mention H1Bs so I did not address that concern. You asked me about denaturalization and I gave you the answer to that. I'm open to discussing visas if you wish, but I did not imply there was a connection between denaturalization and cancelling visas. These are two distinct avenues for removing excess resources from the American labor pool. The only connection between those two groups is that both do place a downward effect on our wages.
    - OutOfHere 1y ago
      When you use the word "our", it's supposed to refer to US citizens. Once a person is a citizen, they are a part of this group. To want to denaturalize anyone means your quest is not rooted in a rational separation of who belongs and who doesn't. Maybe someone will want to denaturalize you and show you the door just the same, so how about that.
      - BuckRogers 1y ago
        You'll have to take up your concerns with a lawyer. See 8 U.S. Code § 1451 - Revocation of naturalization.
        OutOfHere 1y ago
        None of those concerns typically apply with regard to international workers gaining citizenship. Practically all of them gain them lawfully, and with great difficulty too. For all intents and purposes, it is irrelevant to the matter at hand of employment of citizens. The point is the laws of revocation of naturalization alone will not get you or me a better job. In contrast, just the simple act of eliminating non-PhD work visas could fix the situation, but politicians work for corporations, not for the people.
        BuckRogers 1y ago
        I don't disagree with that. Though some did lie on their resumes to get jobs to attain the visas, AI could be used to flag unworthy recent citizens that committed fraud from overseas to attain their citizenship. My wife immigrated without committing fraud and is even more New Right than I am, so there's that. She wants this country preserved, and improved. Not overwhelmed and ultimately degraded. People make a place, and changing those people will change the place. It's how the world works. I would also be willing to accept alternatives, such as the creation of a new Protected Class. Settler Status, which would be granted to all children from a direct paternal line going back to the American Revolution or before for the descendants of native Americans who at that time were from Europe, and did the actual sacrifice of pioneering the wild and settled the land. If you believe new immigrants experienced hardship, try Pennsylvania in 1750. Today an immigrant that faces "hardship" as you put it, is soft as a feather. Just taking advantage of this country without truly contributing. Again, Google might be happy but my concern is not Google Inc. If those with Settler Status were granted permanent job preference over non-Settler Status individuals, that would rectify the injustice and abuse of our legal immigration system, and the blind eye towards illegal immigration.
        1y ago

BuckRogers 1y ago

Denaturalization has always been done and nothing new. The US government can revoke citizenship for those who obtained it fraudulently. This can happen if an individual made false statements or concealed material facts during the naturalization process. The government must prove "clear, convincing, and unequivocal evidence" of fraud to succeed in a denaturalization case. I'd expect more of this going forward.

OutOfHere 1y ago
And what does this have to do with a visa worker? Nothing. It's the government that allow lax policies for work visas. The fault here is not the worker's.
- BuckRogers 1y ago
  I was responding to you. So you tell me. You did not mention H1Bs so I did not address that concern. You asked me about denaturalization and I gave you the answer to that. I'm open to discussing visas if you wish, but I did not imply there was a connection between denaturalization and cancelling visas. These are two distinct avenues for removing excess resources from the American labor pool. The only connection between those two groups is that both do place a downward effect on our wages.
  - OutOfHere 1y ago
    When you use the word "our", it's supposed to refer to US citizens. Once a person is a citizen, they are a part of this group. To want to denaturalize anyone means your quest is not rooted in a rational separation of who belongs and who doesn't. Maybe someone will want to denaturalize you and show you the door just the same, so how about that.
    - BuckRogers 1y ago
      You'll have to take up your concerns with a lawyer. See 8 U.S. Code § 1451 - Revocation of naturalization.
      - OutOfHere 1y ago
        None of those concerns typically apply with regard to international workers gaining citizenship. Practically all of them gain them lawfully, and with great difficulty too. For all intents and purposes, it is irrelevant to the matter at hand of employment of citizens. The point is the laws of revocation of naturalization alone will not get you or me a better job. In contrast, just the simple act of eliminating non-PhD work visas could fix the situation, but politicians work for corporations, not for the people.
        BuckRogers 1y ago
        I don't disagree with that. Though some did lie on their resumes to get jobs to attain the visas, AI could be used to flag unworthy recent citizens that committed fraud from overseas to attain their citizenship. My wife immigrated without committing fraud and is even more New Right than I am, so there's that. She wants this country preserved, and improved. Not overwhelmed and ultimately degraded. People make a place, and changing those people will change the place. It's how the world works. I would also be willing to accept alternatives, such as the creation of a new Protected Class. Settler Status, which would be granted to all children from a direct paternal line going back to the American Revolution or before for the descendants of native Americans who at that time were from Europe, and did the actual sacrifice of pioneering the wild and settled the land. If you believe new immigrants experienced hardship, try Pennsylvania in 1750. Today an immigrant that faces "hardship" as you put it, is soft as a feather. Just taking advantage of this country without truly contributing. Again, Google might be happy but my concern is not Google Inc. If those with Settler Status were granted permanent job preference over non-Settler Status individuals, that would rectify the injustice and abuse of our legal immigration system, and the blind eye towards illegal immigration.
        1y ago