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I hope it's for real. I was just looking for a backup debit card for international travel. This would give me a low-risk but high-utility reason to finally try

I hope it's for real. I was just looking for a backup debit card for international travel. This would give me a low-risk but high-utility reason to finally try bitcoin. And avoid opening another damn bank account

enmaku 14y ago
These are exactly the kind of thoughts I like to see people having about Bitcoin.
- maayank 14y ago
  But isn't international credit/debit cards (even such with "limited charge") a solved problem? Except when under 18, all my credit cards were always international.
  - viraptor 14y ago
    Depends on the charges. If you're ok with around 1£ added to every transaction while you're abroad, then yes, it's a solved problem. But if you're travelling a lot and don't want to exchange the paper money and always be stuck with some change you'll probably never use again... it could be better.
    - josteink 14y ago
      If you're ok with around 1£ added to every transaction while you're abroad, then yes, it's a solved problem. How about £0? That's a solved problem too. In the parts of the world with a working, modernized banking system and proper competition. I could chose to be part of those who got charged £1. I chose not to, and so did so many others, that where I live, finding a bank which charges you money at all to withdraw anywhere in the world is the exception, not the rule. There may be merits to bitcoin (although I do admit I have very little knowledge, insight or understanding of the system), but you don't need it to have working banking institutions and free trade. That I do know.
      - maayank 14y ago
        Exactly. I just went over my credit cards' reports and it specifically says next to the international deals "fees: 0.0"[0]. Both reports checked are for the business/corporate versions[1] of two famous credit card entities (Visa, Amex, Mastercard, Diners). Is it the same for my mother's credit card she got at the supermarker for club discounts? Probably not, but she uses another one outside the supermarket. [0] There is probably some hidden fee in the conversion rate, but it seems to me a fair conversion rate, not unlike I would get at the post office. [1] Personal cards
jerguismi 14y ago
There it is lots of vapourware in the bitcoin scene, lots of projects announced that we will not hear about again in long time. So I'm not too hopeful. I think BitInstant is not special in this sense, they promised bitcoin to cash withdrawals like months ago but haven't managed to ship it.
maayank 14y ago
An honest question: assuming you have more than 1 credit card, aren't all/most of them international? Are local-only credit cards the norm in the U.S.? And do you really need a bank account per credit/debit card? I'd assume you have "external" credit/debit cards, where the only connection to the account is that it is charged monthly.
- otto 14y ago
  Many cards in America have foreign transaction fees. There may be other fees associated as well. That said I have looked into cards with no foreign transaction fees for future international travel. They do exist, but one more issue is making sure they support "chip and pin" for European countries.
  - davidw 14y ago
    The Chase card I have for use here in Italy works fine with no chip. There's an annual fee though, so I'm not sure whether I'll keep it beyond the first year; I'll have to look and see how much it's saved me.
  - eggnet 14y ago
    Wouldn't there be a fee converting to and from bitcoins?
- freehunter 14y ago
  A friend from Finland came to the US for a mutual friend's wedding. He did some shopping at the mall while we were out together, and his Finnish credit card wouldn't read at Abercrombie, so they had to pull out the old slider to copy the card. Using cards internationally can be hit or miss.
- paulsutter 14y ago
  Good question. - You never know when you'll have a fraud alert and a disabled card. When you're travelling overseas, even if you call ahead to notify the card company, you're a lot more likely to get a fraud alert. You know how you can get stuck on hold with your card company, lost in touch-tone hell? Well imagine that on cell phone roaming charges with a dying battery on a noisy street corner. - You never know what will be accepted. Some machines only take chip and PIN (which is the norm in Europe and Asia, they think signing a receipt is weird), sometimes a clerk doesn't know how to do chip and sign or swipe and sign (which is universal here in the US). - Most of all, you're in a country where you dont speak the language, the ATMs look different, you might not be able to read the signs or even have a conversation with a cab driver. When your card gets rejected, you want to have a backup. So, two credit cards (from two different providers) and two debit cards (from two different providers).
raverbashing 14y ago
You can get a pre-payed card for that.
RoyceFullerton 14y ago
I have lived outside of the US for 6 years and can hands down recommend Charles Schwab Bank. All ATM fees in the US and abroad are reimbursed and there are no foreign transaction fees. That shady private ATM in the bar charges $5 per transaction? You are totally insensitive to it. When was the last time you walked into a bank with a checking account question? You are here on HN so I assume it is rarely or never But...it's a debit account, so if you need a credit card this may not fit your use case.
- atmz 14y ago
  Seconded; not sure how easy it is to get one if you don't already have a brokerage account, but no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee, and no ATM fees is great. It's a debit card, but that's better for international travel, as you'll need to take out cash, and I don't think you can get credit cards that won't charge a fee for a cash advance. (As an aside - never never change cash for travelling abroad, the commissions/spreads are ridiculous) As for bitcoin, I feel that the volatility with respect to regular currency make a debit card not that useful unless you're an ideologue or want to speculate/easily get cash out

enmaku 14y ago

These are exactly the kind of thoughts I like to see people having about Bitcoin.

maayank 14y ago
But isn't international credit/debit cards (even such with "limited charge") a solved problem? Except when under 18, all my credit cards were always international.
- viraptor 14y ago
  Depends on the charges. If you're ok with around 1£ added to every transaction while you're abroad, then yes, it's a solved problem. But if you're travelling a lot and don't want to exchange the paper money and always be stuck with some change you'll probably never use again... it could be better.
  - josteink 14y ago
    If you're ok with around 1£ added to every transaction while you're abroad, then yes, it's a solved problem. How about £0? That's a solved problem too. In the parts of the world with a working, modernized banking system and proper competition. I could chose to be part of those who got charged £1. I chose not to, and so did so many others, that where I live, finding a bank which charges you money at all to withdraw anywhere in the world is the exception, not the rule. There may be merits to bitcoin (although I do admit I have very little knowledge, insight or understanding of the system), but you don't need it to have working banking institutions and free trade. That I do know.
    - maayank 14y ago
      Exactly. I just went over my credit cards' reports and it specifically says next to the international deals "fees: 0.0"[0]. Both reports checked are for the business/corporate versions[1] of two famous credit card entities (Visa, Amex, Mastercard, Diners). Is it the same for my mother's credit card she got at the supermarker for club discounts? Probably not, but she uses another one outside the supermarket. [0] There is probably some hidden fee in the conversion rate, but it seems to me a fair conversion rate, not unlike I would get at the post office. [1] Personal cards

jerguismi 14y ago

There it is lots of vapourware in the bitcoin scene, lots of projects announced that we will not hear about again in long time. So I'm not too hopeful. I think BitInstant is not special in this sense, they promised bitcoin to cash withdrawals like months ago but haven't managed to ship it.

maayank 14y ago

An honest question: assuming you have more than 1 credit card, aren't all/most of them international? Are local-only credit cards the norm in the U.S.? And do you really need a bank account per credit/debit card? I'd assume you have "external" credit/debit cards, where the only connection to the account is that it is charged monthly.

otto 14y ago
Many cards in America have foreign transaction fees. There may be other fees associated as well. That said I have looked into cards with no foreign transaction fees for future international travel. They do exist, but one more issue is making sure they support "chip and pin" for European countries.
- davidw 14y ago
  The Chase card I have for use here in Italy works fine with no chip. There's an annual fee though, so I'm not sure whether I'll keep it beyond the first year; I'll have to look and see how much it's saved me.
- eggnet 14y ago
  Wouldn't there be a fee converting to and from bitcoins?
freehunter 14y ago
A friend from Finland came to the US for a mutual friend's wedding. He did some shopping at the mall while we were out together, and his Finnish credit card wouldn't read at Abercrombie, so they had to pull out the old slider to copy the card. Using cards internationally can be hit or miss.
paulsutter 14y ago
Good question. - You never know when you'll have a fraud alert and a disabled card. When you're travelling overseas, even if you call ahead to notify the card company, you're a lot more likely to get a fraud alert. You know how you can get stuck on hold with your card company, lost in touch-tone hell? Well imagine that on cell phone roaming charges with a dying battery on a noisy street corner. - You never know what will be accepted. Some machines only take chip and PIN (which is the norm in Europe and Asia, they think signing a receipt is weird), sometimes a clerk doesn't know how to do chip and sign or swipe and sign (which is universal here in the US). - Most of all, you're in a country where you dont speak the language, the ATMs look different, you might not be able to read the signs or even have a conversation with a cab driver. When your card gets rejected, you want to have a backup. So, two credit cards (from two different providers) and two debit cards (from two different providers).

raverbashing 14y ago

You can get a pre-payed card for that.

RoyceFullerton 14y ago

I have lived outside of the US for 6 years and can hands down recommend Charles Schwab Bank. All ATM fees in the US and abroad are reimbursed and there are no foreign transaction fees. That shady private ATM in the bar charges $5 per transaction? You are totally insensitive to it. When was the last time you walked into a bank with a checking account question? You are here on HN so I assume it is rarely or never But...it's a debit account, so if you need a credit card this may not fit your use case.

atmz 14y ago
Seconded; not sure how easy it is to get one if you don't already have a brokerage account, but no annual fee, no foreign transaction fee, and no ATM fees is great. It's a debit card, but that's better for international travel, as you'll need to take out cash, and I don't think you can get credit cards that won't charge a fee for a cash advance. (As an aside - never never change cash for travelling abroad, the commissions/spreads are ridiculous) As for bitcoin, I feel that the volatility with respect to regular currency make a debit card not that useful unless you're an ideologue or want to speculate/easily get cash out