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If Banks says that the Culture is "hippy communists" it must be so but I'm not sure I ever got that impression though. Physical objects and simulated experienc

If Banks says that the Culture is "hippy communists" it must be so but I'm not sure I ever got that impression though. Physical objects and simulated experiences are simply too cheap to meter in that post-scarcity world such that there's no benefit to be gained from excess possession. It's like saying breathable air is communist. I suspect the broligarchs are more attracted to the concept of all-powerful and all-knowing Minds magnanimously dispensing goods and services to the species under their benevolent(?) management. Minds have the means of production, not the people.

rsynnott 1y ago
Hydrogen Sonata is largely set in _another_ post-scarcity lower-case-c culture who still have money and property and stuff, apparently largely on a ceremonial basis; the Culture characters involved see this as pretty weird. The Culture is fairly explicitly socialist (in the sense that the means of production isn't owned by companies or individuals). I'm fairly certain someone from another culture actually uses the _word_ socialist (rather sneeringly), to describe the Culture in one of the books. Possibly Veppers? > Minds have the means of production, not the people. This is... arguable (and kind of comes up in the books). However it certainly _wasn't_ the case for the early Culture (the Culture predates the capital-m Minds).
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  Oh, interesting; I wasn't even aware that he'd written anything in the Culture universe after Look To Windward since there was such a long hiatus after that one. I'll have pick up his last few books. I still think there's a gap between individuals not having to exercise much self-restraint because nearly anything can be provided to them on demand at no cost because goods and services are too cheap to meter in the Culture and the real world where individuals have to exercise considerable self restraint to hold the means of production by the community and for the community. If the Culture is socialism, it's post-scarcity socialism, which is not a form which most people would recognize.
foxyv 1y ago
> It's like saying breathable air is communist. Try reading some of the older Robert A. Heinlein novels. Hyper capitalist moon colonies where people pay for air.
yencabulator 1y ago
> It's like saying breathable air is communist. Clean air is a socialist value. Limiting the ability of corporations to pollute the air is very much a Nordic/European thing that US right wing frowns upon. Watch all the oil wells leaking methane and the coal plants, and the discussion around those. It's very political, and very much on that axis.
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  You're missing the point. Pick sunlight or something else too cheap to meter if that particular analogy doesn't work for you.

rsynnott 1y ago

Hydrogen Sonata is largely set in _another_ post-scarcity lower-case-c culture who still have money and property and stuff, apparently largely on a ceremonial basis; the Culture characters involved see this as pretty weird. The Culture is fairly explicitly socialist (in the sense that the means of production isn't owned by companies or individuals). I'm fairly certain someone from another culture actually uses the _word_ socialist (rather sneeringly), to describe the Culture in one of the books. Possibly Veppers? > Minds have the means of production, not the people. This is... arguable (and kind of comes up in the books). However it certainly _wasn't_ the case for the early Culture (the Culture predates the capital-m Minds).

ThrowawayR2 1y ago
Oh, interesting; I wasn't even aware that he'd written anything in the Culture universe after Look To Windward since there was such a long hiatus after that one. I'll have pick up his last few books. I still think there's a gap between individuals not having to exercise much self-restraint because nearly anything can be provided to them on demand at no cost because goods and services are too cheap to meter in the Culture and the real world where individuals have to exercise considerable self restraint to hold the means of production by the community and for the community. If the Culture is socialism, it's post-scarcity socialism, which is not a form which most people would recognize.

foxyv 1y ago

> It's like saying breathable air is communist. Try reading some of the older Robert A. Heinlein novels. Hyper capitalist moon colonies where people pay for air.

yencabulator 1y ago

> It's like saying breathable air is communist. Clean air is a socialist value. Limiting the ability of corporations to pollute the air is very much a Nordic/European thing that US right wing frowns upon. Watch all the oil wells leaking methane and the coal plants, and the discussion around those. It's very political, and very much on that axis.

ThrowawayR2 1y ago
You're missing the point. Pick sunlight or something else too cheap to meter if that particular analogy doesn't work for you.