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> You still need a gas car for any kind of road trip... In the US, I've traveled about 50k miles on long road trips in a Tesla and I haven't used my ICE car fo

> You still need a gas car for any kind of road trip... In the US, I've traveled about 50k miles on long road trips in a Tesla and I haven't used my ICE car for a road trip since I got the Tesla. Long range and Tesla's excellent network of superchargers made that possible. I would imagine it's even more doable in Europe since "long distance" road trips there are on the order of 100 miles, while in the US they're more like 1000 miles.

tzs 1y ago
The US is an interesting case because there is so much variation state to state (or even county to county within a state) of both gas prices and electricity prices. The ratio of gas prices in $/gal and electricity prices in $/kWh range from around 9 to around 34. (This is for residential electricity). Does Europe have that much variation? In areas where the ratio is low a non-EV can be cheaper than an EV, especially if that non-EV is a hybrid. In about 1/3 of the states a Prius beats an average EV in highway driving and in around 1/6th the Prius wins in city driving. In around 1/6th the Prius will even beat the most efficient EVs in both highway and city. It's opposite in places with a higher ratio where even a Prius cannot come near the low energy costs of an EV. In roughly 1/5th of the states gas would have to fall to below around $1.70/gal for the Prius to match a typical EV for highway driving, and to around $1.50/gal to match the most efficient highway EVs. Those are gas prices that even Trump probably can't fantasize about. Note that the above was all using residential electricity prices. Commercial EV chargers usually charge quite a bit more. I'm in one of the states with a high gas/electricity price ratio and I think EVs still win here with commercial charger prices but not by much. Without having run the numbers, my guess is that for most road trips that span several states, especially if the are going east/west, a Prius is going to be the energy cost champion. I'm curious if there are any road trip planners that can take all this into account? Say you've got an EV and a non-EV. Are there any where you can give your destination, places along the way you want to see, what cars you have available, and how much extra time you are willing to spend to save money, and it will figure out which car can do the trip for with the least energy costs?
- dreamcompiler 1y ago
  > electricity prices in $/kWh range from around 9 to around 34 You mean .09 to .34 but I agree there's a lot of variation. I pay about 13 cents at home and my fuel bill is around 1/4 the $ per mile in the Model Y as it is for my ICE car when I recharge at home. Superchargers are much more expensive; they're typically a minimum of 25 cents per kWh. But even on long road trips using supercharger energy I still pay a lot less per mile than I would for gasoline unless I drive over 80 mph (wind resistance is the efficiency killer for EVs.) If you want to run the numbers yourself, a Model Y typically can go a mile on 250-300 Wh if relative airspeed is under 60 mph. (I look for tailwinds with windy.com on road trips. I find this fun but I don't expect that's a universal emotion.) I have not seen a trip planner like you describe. The Tesla will tell you the supercharger rates before you arrive so you could choose a different one but that's about it. Tesla tries very hard to keep you from running out of energy. Once I drove away from a supercharger toward the middle of nowhere. My destination was a guest house that I knew had a Level 2 charger. But the car didn't know that. As I approached the halfway point the car started nagging me "You are approaching the point of no return. Turn back NOW to avoid running out of energy." I hit 'Ignore', laughed and kept driving. The car was wrong but I was grateful it had my back.

tzs 1y ago

The US is an interesting case because there is so much variation state to state (or even county to county within a state) of both gas prices and electricity prices. The ratio of gas prices in $/gal and electricity prices in $/kWh range from around 9 to around 34. (This is for residential electricity). Does Europe have that much variation? In areas where the ratio is low a non-EV can be cheaper than an EV, especially if that non-EV is a hybrid. In about 1/3 of the states a Prius beats an average EV in highway driving and in around 1/6th the Prius wins in city driving. In around 1/6th the Prius will even beat the most efficient EVs in both highway and city. It's opposite in places with a higher ratio where even a Prius cannot come near the low energy costs of an EV. In roughly 1/5th of the states gas would have to fall to below around $1.70/gal for the Prius to match a typical EV for highway driving, and to around $1.50/gal to match the most efficient highway EVs. Those are gas prices that even Trump probably can't fantasize about. Note that the above was all using residential electricity prices. Commercial EV chargers usually charge quite a bit more. I'm in one of the states with a high gas/electricity price ratio and I think EVs still win here with commercial charger prices but not by much. Without having run the numbers, my guess is that for most road trips that span several states, especially if the are going east/west, a Prius is going to be the energy cost champion. I'm curious if there are any road trip planners that can take all this into account? Say you've got an EV and a non-EV. Are there any where you can give your destination, places along the way you want to see, what cars you have available, and how much extra time you are willing to spend to save money, and it will figure out which car can do the trip for with the least energy costs?

dreamcompiler 1y ago
> electricity prices in $/kWh range from around 9 to around 34 You mean .09 to .34 but I agree there's a lot of variation. I pay about 13 cents at home and my fuel bill is around 1/4 the $ per mile in the Model Y as it is for my ICE car when I recharge at home. Superchargers are much more expensive; they're typically a minimum of 25 cents per kWh. But even on long road trips using supercharger energy I still pay a lot less per mile than I would for gasoline unless I drive over 80 mph (wind resistance is the efficiency killer for EVs.) If you want to run the numbers yourself, a Model Y typically can go a mile on 250-300 Wh if relative airspeed is under 60 mph. (I look for tailwinds with windy.com on road trips. I find this fun but I don't expect that's a universal emotion.) I have not seen a trip planner like you describe. The Tesla will tell you the supercharger rates before you arrive so you could choose a different one but that's about it. Tesla tries very hard to keep you from running out of energy. Once I drove away from a supercharger toward the middle of nowhere. My destination was a guest house that I knew had a Level 2 charger. But the car didn't know that. As I approached the halfway point the car started nagging me "You are approaching the point of no return. Turn back NOW to avoid running out of energy." I hit 'Ignore', laughed and kept driving. The car was wrong but I was grateful it had my back.