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> More than anything, this sounds like no one was actually leading or moderating the standups. One of my clients hired a former U.S. Marine. I so enjoyed atten

> More than anything, this sounds like no one was actually leading or moderating the standups. One of my clients hired a former U.S. Marine. I so enjoyed attending the meetings he ran. He managed the clock with ruthless efficiency.

alistairSH 1y ago
Tangent: Way back when I was in Scouts, the scout master was a USN missile submarine captain. He was a quirky guy, not the least of which was his ability to schedule things to ridiculous levels of detail... cross-country trip to go backpacking, and he'd have a lunch stop at 13:14, gas stop at 17:29, on base (we would stay in open barracks at military bases across the country) by 16:09. And wouldn't you know it... we were usually within a few minutes either way. And he managed to pack a lot of side-trips/value into the days we were on the road. It was really wild.
- pc86 1y ago
  I would never suggest people join the military to learn how to run a schedule correctly, but I will say that it's hard to find someone who was in the military - and borderline impossible to find someone who was senior in the military, especially a senior NCO - who is habitually late.
- harrall 1y ago
  I once did an international camping and backpacking trip like this where we had everything down to a minute. The key is to check your watch after you complete any activity. For example, you read that a 1000ft climb hike takes 2 hours and you do it in 2.5 hours. Do this over months and you gain the ability to make perfect estimates. Turns out that feedback loops are useful. Also applies to all other skills. Funny thing is I’m mostly a buy tickets to fly next week and wing it kind of person but I wanted to try it one time for kicks. Winging it is a whole different set of skills. Get good at both and planning becomes your jam.
watwut 1y ago
One problem with efficiently running standups is that ... they are the most useless meeting in the world. It is short, ok, but nothing whatsoever would change if it did not happened.
- mcv 1y ago
  I strongly disagree. It's a brief moment every day to see everybody, check up on what everybody is working on, and notice if anyone needs help. Every part of that is useful.
  - watwut 1y ago
    It is quick status report, purely form exercise. You hear names of tasks you know nothing about and have no idea whether you can help. All the useful parts happen when it is ineffective and people discuss details.
    - whstl 1y ago
      It shouldn’t be a status report, though. This information is already in Jira or whatever. Someone running a standup meeting where people just repeat information is by definition not doing an efficient job at all.
      - watwut 1y ago
        There is only so much information one can fit into 1 minute long report. The thread is literally defining effective standup and a quick one where people answer the "what have you done, what you will do" questions. The one where discussion is cut so that it is as short as possible.
        whstl 1y ago
        You're the one complaining about "hearing names of tasks you know nothing about" but you're also the one saying it should consist of "what have you done, what you will do". It doesn't. :) Stand ups are not for status reports, they're for syncing. "I have a big PR coming so please check it today". "I am still stuck with the sprongler bifurcator but I expect to be over tomorrow". "I need to involve someone from team X, their stuff is blocking me". "Ok, Y, let's chat after this meeting".

alistairSH 1y ago

Tangent: Way back when I was in Scouts, the scout master was a USN missile submarine captain. He was a quirky guy, not the least of which was his ability to schedule things to ridiculous levels of detail... cross-country trip to go backpacking, and he'd have a lunch stop at 13:14, gas stop at 17:29, on base (we would stay in open barracks at military bases across the country) by 16:09. And wouldn't you know it... we were usually within a few minutes either way. And he managed to pack a lot of side-trips/value into the days we were on the road. It was really wild.

pc86 1y ago
I would never suggest people join the military to learn how to run a schedule correctly, but I will say that it's hard to find someone who was in the military - and borderline impossible to find someone who was senior in the military, especially a senior NCO - who is habitually late.
harrall 1y ago
I once did an international camping and backpacking trip like this where we had everything down to a minute. The key is to check your watch after you complete any activity. For example, you read that a 1000ft climb hike takes 2 hours and you do it in 2.5 hours. Do this over months and you gain the ability to make perfect estimates. Turns out that feedback loops are useful. Also applies to all other skills. Funny thing is I’m mostly a buy tickets to fly next week and wing it kind of person but I wanted to try it one time for kicks. Winging it is a whole different set of skills. Get good at both and planning becomes your jam.

watwut 1y ago

One problem with efficiently running standups is that ... they are the most useless meeting in the world. It is short, ok, but nothing whatsoever would change if it did not happened.

mcv 1y ago
I strongly disagree. It's a brief moment every day to see everybody, check up on what everybody is working on, and notice if anyone needs help. Every part of that is useful.
- watwut 1y ago
  It is quick status report, purely form exercise. You hear names of tasks you know nothing about and have no idea whether you can help. All the useful parts happen when it is ineffective and people discuss details.
  - whstl 1y ago
    It shouldn’t be a status report, though. This information is already in Jira or whatever. Someone running a standup meeting where people just repeat information is by definition not doing an efficient job at all.
    - watwut 1y ago
      There is only so much information one can fit into 1 minute long report. The thread is literally defining effective standup and a quick one where people answer the "what have you done, what you will do" questions. The one where discussion is cut so that it is as short as possible.
      - whstl 1y ago
        You're the one complaining about "hearing names of tasks you know nothing about" but you're also the one saying it should consist of "what have you done, what you will do". It doesn't. :) Stand ups are not for status reports, they're for syncing. "I have a big PR coming so please check it today". "I am still stuck with the sprongler bifurcator but I expect to be over tomorrow". "I need to involve someone from team X, their stuff is blocking me". "Ok, Y, let's chat after this meeting".