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So, the full clause reads: "When the headroom of an arch or span of a bridge is reduced from its usual limits but that arch or span is not closed to navigation

So, the full clause reads: "When the headroom of an arch or span of a bridge is reduced from its usual limits but that arch or span is not closed to navigation, the person in control of the bridge must suspend from the centre of that arch or span by day a bundle of straw large enough to be conspicuous and by night a white light." Does that mean the law is not being complied with, in this case, since the bales are hanging from adjacent bridges, not the "centre of that arch or span" itself?

maratc 1y ago
I think you'd need a couple of "solicitors" -- or maybe even "barristers" -- to decide on that. I'm neither :)
ipsin 1y ago
Thanks, I was annoyed that the article didn't cite the actual law in question, but the BBC comes in with "Port of London Thames Byelaws, clause 36.2" https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cmlrx89jdv2o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cmlrx89jdv2o
- maratc 1y ago
  The BBC also didn't call it "ancient," which would be questionable considering that the law is from 2012.
  - alexbilbie 1y ago
    Its an ancient practise, codified into law in 2012 when the regulatory framework was re-codified from multiple laws like Port of London Act 1908 as well as time immemorial acts like this.
    - danans 1y ago
      According to the article the original practice is medieval, not ancient. It's colloquial usage of "ancient" as in "my car is ancient" is a bit odd.
    - gjm11 1y ago
      Fun fact: in English law "time immemorial" has a very specific meaning: it means "any time before 1189". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial for more.
red_admiral 1y ago
Delays due to trucks striking bridges are a worldwide problem, at least in countries with railroads. Despite yellow black striped reflective panels and height warning signs and sometimes height detectors that trigger flashing red lights. Perhaps we should try a bale of straw next. The London Blackwall tunnel has a more modern take on checking height: https://maps.app.goo.gl/b5P5Td1hsuSjLU3w8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/b5P5Td1hsuSjLU3w8 traffic signals, barriers like at a railroad crossing, giant panels across the road at height, and a police car on standby to pull out and fine anyone that doesn't read the signs - I presume this happens often enough that they can justify the cost. But then the bale of straw applied to ships not vehicles and bridges not tunnels.
- walthamstow 1y ago
  Your link shows the Dartford Crossing, an M25 bridge miles downstream of the City. The Blackwall Tunnel runs under the Thames at Greenwich and afaik just has the old school hanging metal blocks at height https://maps.app.goo.gl/N5xSF148ggLVTDtS8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/N5xSF148ggLVTDtS8 It doesn't surprise me too much that police are on standby, a closure of either tunnel or bridge has a major effect on traffic all over London
  - peteri 1y ago
    There are additional traffic lights on the blackwall tunnel further in and a slip road out that can be used for overheight vehicles. I do remember having a 10-15 minute wait once while they sorted things out when a lorry driver got caught. I'd have a feeling there are automated signs prior to the tunnel (or at least used to be) but I've not been through the tunnel for a year or so and things will have changed with the Silvertown tunnel opening. I have seen someone not paying attention at the Rotherhithe tunnel and the roof of their van was a mess (and they're going to pick up a fine probably due to restrictions, the 2 tonnes gross weight limit is lower than a lot of van drivers expect) Edit there were: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MP7fkhS394DJPQaZ9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/MP7fkhS394DJPQaZ9 If you zoom in you can see the overheight vehicle warning.
    - 1y ago

maratc 1y ago

I think you'd need a couple of "solicitors" -- or maybe even "barristers" -- to decide on that. I'm neither :)

ipsin 1y ago

Thanks, I was annoyed that the article didn't cite the actual law in question, but the BBC comes in with "Port of London Thames Byelaws, clause 36.2" https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cmlrx89jdv2o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cmlrx89jdv2o

maratc 1y ago
The BBC also didn't call it "ancient," which would be questionable considering that the law is from 2012.
- alexbilbie 1y ago
  Its an ancient practise, codified into law in 2012 when the regulatory framework was re-codified from multiple laws like Port of London Act 1908 as well as time immemorial acts like this.
  - danans 1y ago
    According to the article the original practice is medieval, not ancient. It's colloquial usage of "ancient" as in "my car is ancient" is a bit odd.
  - gjm11 1y ago
    Fun fact: in English law "time immemorial" has a very specific meaning: it means "any time before 1189". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_immemorial for more.

red_admiral 1y ago

Delays due to trucks striking bridges are a worldwide problem, at least in countries with railroads. Despite yellow black striped reflective panels and height warning signs and sometimes height detectors that trigger flashing red lights. Perhaps we should try a bale of straw next. The London Blackwall tunnel has a more modern take on checking height: https://maps.app.goo.gl/b5P5Td1hsuSjLU3w8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/b5P5Td1hsuSjLU3w8 traffic signals, barriers like at a railroad crossing, giant panels across the road at height, and a police car on standby to pull out and fine anyone that doesn't read the signs - I presume this happens often enough that they can justify the cost. But then the bale of straw applied to ships not vehicles and bridges not tunnels.

walthamstow 1y ago
Your link shows the Dartford Crossing, an M25 bridge miles downstream of the City. The Blackwall Tunnel runs under the Thames at Greenwich and afaik just has the old school hanging metal blocks at height https://maps.app.goo.gl/N5xSF148ggLVTDtS8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/N5xSF148ggLVTDtS8 It doesn't surprise me too much that police are on standby, a closure of either tunnel or bridge has a major effect on traffic all over London
- peteri 1y ago
  There are additional traffic lights on the blackwall tunnel further in and a slip road out that can be used for overheight vehicles. I do remember having a 10-15 minute wait once while they sorted things out when a lorry driver got caught. I'd have a feeling there are automated signs prior to the tunnel (or at least used to be) but I've not been through the tunnel for a year or so and things will have changed with the Silvertown tunnel opening. I have seen someone not paying attention at the Rotherhithe tunnel and the roof of their van was a mess (and they're going to pick up a fine probably due to restrictions, the 2 tonnes gross weight limit is lower than a lot of van drivers expect) Edit there were: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MP7fkhS394DJPQaZ9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/MP7fkhS394DJPQaZ9 If you zoom in you can see the overheight vehicle warning.
  - 1y ago