4 ms·

Have you ever watched someone organize their own files on disk? Copy files between disks/USB drives? Try to copy a file between two machines (yes, even on Windo

Have you ever watched someone organize their own files on disk? Copy files between disks/USB drives? Try to copy a file between two machines (yes, even on Windows)? Or get lost in settings or configuration files? People, typical people, do. not. understand. any. of. those. things. Yes, some people do but most people don't and they don't want to either. Advanced users of <anything> really need to realize that just because something is simple to you does not mean it's simple to everyone; heaven forbid we try to make things that more people can use and understand.

CmdrKrool 14y ago
darkstalker's talking about stuff being /limited/, not stuff being simple to use and understand. They're related but not the same - that's where great design can come in. (At least, I still believe!) And I have certainly seen a 'typical' person, who would frequently end up lost having teetered into one of the incredible variety of wrong turns it's possible to take in Windows Explorer - having migrated to a Mac, being brought to near tears of frustration by not being able to arrange things in iPhoto in a way that satisfied her, even after I showed her how to create "albums" to act in a way which is uncannily similar to but not the same as folders, a concept which she does actually understand and use. (I'm now researching - with no definite expectation of a non-excessively laborious answer - how to export the photos from her iPhoto library into something like their original PC folder structure, so that I can set her up with the highly recommended Lyn and so that she can also manage the photos in the Finder as she really wants to.)
BigTigger 14y ago
I had a similar user experience with iOS (I admit I bailed out of the ecosystem at the 3GS but it hasn't changed substantially since then). You're correct with everything you say, however, I feel that while you should always cater for the lowest common denominator (which Apple does, very well with iOS). You should also cater for the power user and the ultimate reason I switched out of the iOS ecosystem the only way I could get all the functionality I wanted was by jailbreaking my iPhone, whereas with an Android it's all native (and am glad to say I haven't had to root my Android). Further to the above paragraph from what I observe in iOS is that it appears that they do not want to progress towards power users, unless I've missed some key developments recently. In saying this, I've recently purchased a MacBook and I feel that they've done an incredible job with OSX in the regards, it's very easy to use for the novice but allows for a lot of power user functionality (e.g. multiple finger swipes, access to terminal, keyboard shortcuts for things like spotlight).
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  > it hasn't changed substantially since then I think it was iOS 4 that gave apps a filesystem users could directly (through iTunes) manipulate... I'm not sure how to describe it, so take a look at this picture: http://d.pr/i/PGfr http://d.pr/i/PGfr - I can drop PDFs (and other files) in that window and the app would see them. It's fast, sine it's using USB. AND, if you plug the iPad to another computer, they can add PDFs too (no need to sync with that computer). Also, wireless syncing (or syncing with icloud.com) is a big deal IMO. And interaction between apps (like opening a PDF that's in ReaddleDocs in Adobe Reader) is easy now. Most apps implement a simple "sharing" button that lets you open a file in all qualifying apps. And Safari... Safari is finally a decent browser. Specially on iPad. And the whole iClous thing is just magnificent if you have iPhone, iPad and a Mac. But still, it lacks some of "advanced" features of Android ("intents", for one), and wouldn't have them for at least 13 months (when iOS 7 comes out).
vacri 14y ago
Typical people understand the file/folder paradigm just fine. It's just a myth, pure FUD, that people have trouble with this idea. Things like the problem copying between computers is really about the issue of connectivity, not about the concept of copying object foo onto computer bar. Naives quite happily understand of their files as moveable objects, similar to apples in a basket. In all the hand-holding I've done of naive users, even those people who get thoroughly confused that there's 'left' and 'right' 'clicks' still firmly grasp the basic idea of files.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  > pure FUD My relatives and friends are outliers then. Or maybe yours are. But, I don't think it's FUD because I have first-hand experience.
- projct 14y ago
  In my spare time I tutor office workers, casual users, and students on how to use Office and various other tools to improve their workflow, etc. This is not FUD at all. The files/folders concept is one of those things that most people just don't understand.

CmdrKrool 14y ago

darkstalker's talking about stuff being /limited/, not stuff being simple to use and understand. They're related but not the same - that's where great design can come in. (At least, I still believe!) And I have certainly seen a 'typical' person, who would frequently end up lost having teetered into one of the incredible variety of wrong turns it's possible to take in Windows Explorer - having migrated to a Mac, being brought to near tears of frustration by not being able to arrange things in iPhoto in a way that satisfied her, even after I showed her how to create "albums" to act in a way which is uncannily similar to but not the same as folders, a concept which she does actually understand and use. (I'm now researching - with no definite expectation of a non-excessively laborious answer - how to export the photos from her iPhoto library into something like their original PC folder structure, so that I can set her up with the highly recommended Lyn and so that she can also manage the photos in the Finder as she really wants to.)

BigTigger 14y ago

I had a similar user experience with iOS (I admit I bailed out of the ecosystem at the 3GS but it hasn't changed substantially since then). You're correct with everything you say, however, I feel that while you should always cater for the lowest common denominator (which Apple does, very well with iOS). You should also cater for the power user and the ultimate reason I switched out of the iOS ecosystem the only way I could get all the functionality I wanted was by jailbreaking my iPhone, whereas with an Android it's all native (and am glad to say I haven't had to root my Android). Further to the above paragraph from what I observe in iOS is that it appears that they do not want to progress towards power users, unless I've missed some key developments recently. In saying this, I've recently purchased a MacBook and I feel that they've done an incredible job with OSX in the regards, it's very easy to use for the novice but allows for a lot of power user functionality (e.g. multiple finger swipes, access to terminal, keyboard shortcuts for things like spotlight).

pooriaazimi 14y ago
> it hasn't changed substantially since then I think it was iOS 4 that gave apps a filesystem users could directly (through iTunes) manipulate... I'm not sure how to describe it, so take a look at this picture: http://d.pr/i/PGfr http://d.pr/i/PGfr - I can drop PDFs (and other files) in that window and the app would see them. It's fast, sine it's using USB. AND, if you plug the iPad to another computer, they can add PDFs too (no need to sync with that computer). Also, wireless syncing (or syncing with icloud.com) is a big deal IMO. And interaction between apps (like opening a PDF that's in ReaddleDocs in Adobe Reader) is easy now. Most apps implement a simple "sharing" button that lets you open a file in all qualifying apps. And Safari... Safari is finally a decent browser. Specially on iPad. And the whole iClous thing is just magnificent if you have iPhone, iPad and a Mac. But still, it lacks some of "advanced" features of Android ("intents", for one), and wouldn't have them for at least 13 months (when iOS 7 comes out).

vacri 14y ago

Typical people understand the file/folder paradigm just fine. It's just a myth, pure FUD, that people have trouble with this idea. Things like the problem copying between computers is really about the issue of connectivity, not about the concept of copying object foo onto computer bar. Naives quite happily understand of their files as moveable objects, similar to apples in a basket. In all the hand-holding I've done of naive users, even those people who get thoroughly confused that there's 'left' and 'right' 'clicks' still firmly grasp the basic idea of files.

pooriaazimi 14y ago
> pure FUD My relatives and friends are outliers then. Or maybe yours are. But, I don't think it's FUD because I have first-hand experience.
projct 14y ago
In my spare time I tutor office workers, casual users, and students on how to use Office and various other tools to improve their workflow, etc. This is not FUD at all. The files/folders concept is one of those things that most people just don't understand.