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And even people that some people decry as bad and terrible people (for example Elon Musk) still can make amazing leaders that people will willingly drop everyth

And even people that some people decry as bad and terrible people (for example Elon Musk) still can make amazing leaders that people will willingly drop everything to go work for and who leads them on to achieve great things.

jinushaun 1y ago
I think Elon’s strategy is that he hires workaholics like himself. It’s not a scalable general purpose strategy.
- solumunus 1y ago
  For a workaholic, Elon seems to spend a lot of time not working.
  - tempestn 1y ago
    Depends on your definition of work, I guess.
    - smatija 1y ago
      I don't think this fits anyone's definition of work: https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1hwxc17/documenting_the_saga_of_elon_musks_account/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1hwxc17/docum...
      - binary132 1y ago
        It seems as though you are trying to say that he isn’t a workaholic because he’s not very dedicated to playing games, but that surely doesn’t make sense.
        jodleif 1y ago
        He said he was very dedicated, but turned out he wasn’t (surprise). What else could he be lying about? Surely not his work ethic
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        smatija 1y ago
        I kind of don't imagine a workaholic having online gaming scandal about paying someone to run a game for them and then doubling down on that, but well, I was already told before I lack imagination.
        Jensson 1y ago
        That is kinda orthogonal to being a workaholic. It isn't hard to imagine someone spending 16 hours of working and then going home and playing a game and putting in money to make themselves more powerful in the game.
      - littlestymaar 1y ago
        He's paying a talented guy to do something and then claims it as his own, that's definitely work! (Well, at least that's pretty close to his actual work as a company owner). His real full time job is watching alt-right videos and memes on YouTube and 4chan.
- shotnothing 1y ago
  so does steve jobs, seems to have worked out for him
latexr 1y ago
Be careful not to confuse “great leader” with “cult leader”. A great leader is someone who cares about you and helps you surface the best version of yourself. They understand there is a person behind the work and don’t neglect the human side. They mention the team behind projects when talking about successes and don’t blame others for failures. A cult leader is someone with a hypnotic personality who puts themselves first before anyone else. They couldn’t give less of a shit about you or your sacrifices, and will fire you even if you sleep in the office to get more work done. They are selfish and narcissistic, believe they know everything, and speak about successes as if they personally did all the work.
- osigurdson 1y ago
  What would you call a leader that puts the objective ahead of everything else, including employees and themselves? I think that more closely aligns with people that have been very successful.
  - latexr 1y ago
    > What would you call a leader that puts the objective ahead of everything else, including employees and themselves? That definition is too broad to be useful. Is the “objective” to make money at all costs, and the leader is willing to suck employees and themselves dry, even over protests? Or is the objective to build a free hospital in a poor country and everyone is so committed to the cause they are willing to make personal sacrifices? > I think that more closely aligns with people that have been very successful. Also aligns with scammers and other grifters who are now in jail. “Successful” is also too broad a term to be useful. One person may think that “being very successful” means being rich, while to another interpersonal relationships and a happy life are what matter.
- herval 1y ago
  "cult leaders" are, by definition, "great leaders" - they excel at leading people. Sure, it's better to work for someone that cares about you instead of someone that only cares about themselves. But that doesn't make this a Venn Diagram - there are great leaders who are selfish and narcissistic. There are cult leaders who aren't either.
herculity275 1y ago
> even people that some people decry as bad and terrible people (for example Elon Musk) still can make amazing leaders None of the leaders in this conversation are good people. Elon's controversies are way past the point of "some people decry" (why even use a phrasing this convoluted unless you just want to signal that you don't agree with it?) and firmly in "lots of great people wouldn't touch it with a pole". Part of leadership is creating a safe work environment and shielding your companies/brands from unnecessary drama, and Elon has done an absolutely abysmal job at it lately.

jinushaun 1y ago

I think Elon’s strategy is that he hires workaholics like himself. It’s not a scalable general purpose strategy.

solumunus 1y ago
For a workaholic, Elon seems to spend a lot of time not working.
- tempestn 1y ago
  Depends on your definition of work, I guess.
  - smatija 1y ago
    I don't think this fits anyone's definition of work: https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1hwxc17/documenting_the_saga_of_elon_musks_account/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExile2/comments/1hwxc17/docum...
    - binary132 1y ago
      It seems as though you are trying to say that he isn’t a workaholic because he’s not very dedicated to playing games, but that surely doesn’t make sense.
      - jodleif 1y ago
        He said he was very dedicated, but turned out he wasn’t (surprise). What else could he be lying about? Surely not his work ethic
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - smatija 1y ago
        I kind of don't imagine a workaholic having online gaming scandal about paying someone to run a game for them and then doubling down on that, but well, I was already told before I lack imagination.
        Jensson 1y ago
        That is kinda orthogonal to being a workaholic. It isn't hard to imagine someone spending 16 hours of working and then going home and playing a game and putting in money to make themselves more powerful in the game.
    - littlestymaar 1y ago
      He's paying a talented guy to do something and then claims it as his own, that's definitely work! (Well, at least that's pretty close to his actual work as a company owner). His real full time job is watching alt-right videos and memes on YouTube and 4chan.
shotnothing 1y ago
so does steve jobs, seems to have worked out for him

latexr 1y ago

Be careful not to confuse “great leader” with “cult leader”. A great leader is someone who cares about you and helps you surface the best version of yourself. They understand there is a person behind the work and don’t neglect the human side. They mention the team behind projects when talking about successes and don’t blame others for failures. A cult leader is someone with a hypnotic personality who puts themselves first before anyone else. They couldn’t give less of a shit about you or your sacrifices, and will fire you even if you sleep in the office to get more work done. They are selfish and narcissistic, believe they know everything, and speak about successes as if they personally did all the work.

osigurdson 1y ago
What would you call a leader that puts the objective ahead of everything else, including employees and themselves? I think that more closely aligns with people that have been very successful.
- latexr 1y ago
  > What would you call a leader that puts the objective ahead of everything else, including employees and themselves? That definition is too broad to be useful. Is the “objective” to make money at all costs, and the leader is willing to suck employees and themselves dry, even over protests? Or is the objective to build a free hospital in a poor country and everyone is so committed to the cause they are willing to make personal sacrifices? > I think that more closely aligns with people that have been very successful. Also aligns with scammers and other grifters who are now in jail. “Successful” is also too broad a term to be useful. One person may think that “being very successful” means being rich, while to another interpersonal relationships and a happy life are what matter.
herval 1y ago
"cult leaders" are, by definition, "great leaders" - they excel at leading people. Sure, it's better to work for someone that cares about you instead of someone that only cares about themselves. But that doesn't make this a Venn Diagram - there are great leaders who are selfish and narcissistic. There are cult leaders who aren't either.

herculity275 1y ago

> even people that some people decry as bad and terrible people (for example Elon Musk) still can make amazing leaders None of the leaders in this conversation are good people. Elon's controversies are way past the point of "some people decry" (why even use a phrasing this convoluted unless you just want to signal that you don't agree with it?) and firmly in "lots of great people wouldn't touch it with a pole". Part of leadership is creating a safe work environment and shielding your companies/brands from unnecessary drama, and Elon has done an absolutely abysmal job at it lately.