5 ms·

I’d rather use redhat than Ubuntu. I was handed a machine the other week with Ubuntu 23.10 on it, OS supplied from a vendor with extensive customization. Apt wa

by dgfitz 1y ago

I’d rather use redhat than Ubuntu. I was handed a machine the other week with Ubuntu 23.10 on it, OS supplied from a vendor with extensive customization. Apt was dead. Fuck that. At least RH doesn’t kill their repos.

gerdesj 1y ago
I've got Ubuntu 22.04 lying around that still update because they are LTS. Ubuntu has a well publicised policy for releases and you will have obviously read them. Try do-release-upgrade. You also mention "OS supplied from a vendor with extensive customization. Apt was dead." How on earth is that Ubuntu's problem?
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  Isn’t Ubuntu basically killing apt? My Ubuntu became unusable because it kept insisting on installing a snap version of Firefox breaking a whole bunch of workflows. I do want to try a RH based OS (maybe Fedora) so they don’t keep changing things on me, but just where I am in life right now I don’t have the time/energy to do so, so for now I’m relying on my Mac. Hopefully I can try a new Linux distro in a few months, because I can’t figure it out yet, but something about macOS simply doesn’t work for me from a getting work done perspective.
  - nine_k 1y ago
    I've heard many good things about Pop OS. It's like Ubuntu done right, and it does have an apt package for Firefox. (I run Void myself, and stay merrily away from all these complications.)
    - tgmatt 1y ago
      I can highly recommend it. Have been using it for a couple years or so now, haven't had any serious issues.
    - ChocolateGod 1y ago
      > It's like Ubuntu done right But it is Ubuntu?
      - nine_k 1y ago
        It's based on Ubuntu, but it's different enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS
    - severino 1y ago
      In Ubuntu, it's also possible to ditch Firefox from the snap store and install it using apt-get. Not from Ubuntu's repo, but from the official Firefox Debian repository: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-deb-apt-ubuntu-22-04 https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-d... I know it's not the best but at least it can be done with little effort.
  - mulmen 1y ago
    I have been using Fedora Sway as my desktop operating system for a couple years now and I am very happy. It’s definitely worth a try. I have access to flatpak when I need it for apps like steam but the system is still managed by rpm/dnf. There’s of course some SELinux pain but that’s typically my fault for holding it wrong. Overall very impressed.
- dgfitz 1y ago
  I cannot update the OS per the contract. It’s Ubuntu’s problem because they decide they’re smarter than their users and nuke their repos. Fuck all of that.
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    It's well publicized that they don't maintain support for old, non-LTS distros. They literally delivered what they promised. Could have been avoided by using an LTS distro. Fedora does the same. No corporate vendor supports 6 month cycle distros for more than a year. RHEL releases come super slowly, for example.
    - dgfitz 1y ago
      I didn’t have a say in the matter of OS choice, it doesn’t matter how well-publicized Ubuntu’s stance is, it’s wrong. I don’t care if it’s not an LTS, keep the fucking repos open and advertise you’re using an insecure OS. Let me, the user, make that choice. Don’t pretend I’m stupid and need some kind of benevolent dictator to make choices for me, or handicap me because they’re smarter than me. They’re not.
      - dismalaf 1y ago
        "Keeping the repos open" has a cost on their part. Servers aren't free. If you think you're smart then mirror your own repos.
        dgfitz 1y ago
        Really? How much more can it cost to host their LTS and non LTS repos open at the same time? C’mon, that’s such a weak argument I think you know it.
        dismalaf 1y ago
        If there's no cost in time, effort or equipment then mirror it yourself. It's easy, right? Or just use an LTS distro like literally every single other organization that depends on Ubuntu for their business SMH. Like, it's absurd to even think about...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
Well that's just plain incompetent on the part of your vendor. 23.10 is not an LTS version and Ubuntu only provide updates for a short period of time (6 months or so after the next version is released), so the vendor should have upgraded it to 24.04 which IS an LTS version. It's like you're complaining to Microsoft about a vendor giving you an old XP machine and that you can't update it.
- chithanh 1y ago
  I think the more apt (pun not intended) comparison would be to macOS? Trying to install macOS High Sierra from the Internet without hackery will lead to "the recovery server could not be contacted" error message, because certificates have expired. Like if your Mac came with High Sierra and you want to do a factory reset. Windows from that era still updates. Though up next will be expiration of Windows UEFI CA 2011 which will certainly lead to boot problems for some.
GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
you need to file a support ticket with the organization that provided the laptop. they chose to provide you with what amounts to a technology preview with a very limited lifespan. [0] 0: https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle

by dgfitz 1y ago

gerdesj 1y ago

I've got Ubuntu 22.04 lying around that still update because they are LTS. Ubuntu has a well publicised policy for releases and you will have obviously read them. Try do-release-upgrade. You also mention "OS supplied from a vendor with extensive customization. Apt was dead." How on earth is that Ubuntu's problem?

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
Isn’t Ubuntu basically killing apt? My Ubuntu became unusable because it kept insisting on installing a snap version of Firefox breaking a whole bunch of workflows. I do want to try a RH based OS (maybe Fedora) so they don’t keep changing things on me, but just where I am in life right now I don’t have the time/energy to do so, so for now I’m relying on my Mac. Hopefully I can try a new Linux distro in a few months, because I can’t figure it out yet, but something about macOS simply doesn’t work for me from a getting work done perspective.
- nine_k 1y ago
  I've heard many good things about Pop OS. It's like Ubuntu done right, and it does have an apt package for Firefox. (I run Void myself, and stay merrily away from all these complications.)
  - tgmatt 1y ago
    I can highly recommend it. Have been using it for a couple years or so now, haven't had any serious issues.
  - ChocolateGod 1y ago
    > It's like Ubuntu done right But it is Ubuntu?
    - nine_k 1y ago
      It's based on Ubuntu, but it's different enough: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS
  - severino 1y ago
    In Ubuntu, it's also possible to ditch Firefox from the snap store and install it using apt-get. Not from Ubuntu's repo, but from the official Firefox Debian repository: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-deb-apt-ubuntu-22-04 https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-d... I know it's not the best but at least it can be done with little effort.
- mulmen 1y ago
  I have been using Fedora Sway as my desktop operating system for a couple years now and I am very happy. It’s definitely worth a try. I have access to flatpak when I need it for apps like steam but the system is still managed by rpm/dnf. There’s of course some SELinux pain but that’s typically my fault for holding it wrong. Overall very impressed.
dgfitz 1y ago
I cannot update the OS per the contract. It’s Ubuntu’s problem because they decide they’re smarter than their users and nuke their repos. Fuck all of that.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  It's well publicized that they don't maintain support for old, non-LTS distros. They literally delivered what they promised. Could have been avoided by using an LTS distro. Fedora does the same. No corporate vendor supports 6 month cycle distros for more than a year. RHEL releases come super slowly, for example.
  - dgfitz 1y ago
    I didn’t have a say in the matter of OS choice, it doesn’t matter how well-publicized Ubuntu’s stance is, it’s wrong. I don’t care if it’s not an LTS, keep the fucking repos open and advertise you’re using an insecure OS. Let me, the user, make that choice. Don’t pretend I’m stupid and need some kind of benevolent dictator to make choices for me, or handicap me because they’re smarter than me. They’re not.
    - dismalaf 1y ago
      "Keeping the repos open" has a cost on their part. Servers aren't free. If you think you're smart then mirror your own repos.
      - dgfitz 1y ago
        Really? How much more can it cost to host their LTS and non LTS repos open at the same time? C’mon, that’s such a weak argument I think you know it.
        dismalaf 1y ago
        If there's no cost in time, effort or equipment then mirror it yourself. It's easy, right? Or just use an LTS distro like literally every single other organization that depends on Ubuntu for their business SMH. Like, it's absurd to even think about...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

ndsipa_pomu 1y ago

Well that's just plain incompetent on the part of your vendor. 23.10 is not an LTS version and Ubuntu only provide updates for a short period of time (6 months or so after the next version is released), so the vendor should have upgraded it to 24.04 which IS an LTS version. It's like you're complaining to Microsoft about a vendor giving you an old XP machine and that you can't update it.

chithanh 1y ago
I think the more apt (pun not intended) comparison would be to macOS? Trying to install macOS High Sierra from the Internet without hackery will lead to "the recovery server could not be contacted" error message, because certificates have expired. Like if your Mac came with High Sierra and you want to do a factory reset. Windows from that era still updates. Though up next will be expiration of Windows UEFI CA 2011 which will certainly lead to boot problems for some.

GuinansEyebrows 1y ago

you need to file a support ticket with the organization that provided the laptop. they chose to provide you with what amounts to a technology preview with a very limited lifespan. [0] 0: https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle