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> https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ch4s3 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ch4s3 > Except Friedman wasn't a racist, and the quote is cut specifically to

> https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ch4s3 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ch4s3 > Except Friedman wasn't a racist, and the quote is cut specifically to make it appear that way. He doesn't say that Friedman was racist, you made that up. He says that Friedman was a fundamentalist and that people should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, and the quote illustrates that well and the context doesn't change anything to that point.

ch4s3 1y ago
I'm saying he clipped the quote to give that impression. > He says that Friedman was a fundamentalist and that people should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, and the quote illustrates that well and the context doesn't change anything to that point. No, Firedman says that government force isn't the best way to address discrimination. Again the quote is clipped to mislead.
- alabastervlog 1y ago
  https://ia803400.us.archive.org/18/items/murdoch-murdoch-book-playlist/Capitalism%20and%20Freedom%20-%20Milton%20Freidman.pdf https://ia803400.us.archive.org/18/items/murdoch-murdoch-boo... Page 93 (as numbered on the pages, IDK which PDF "page" [edit: nb the table of contents gets it wrong, one supposes the pages were re-numbered in the digitization process, or something]) or just search "Capitalism and Discrimination" and it'll get you there fast, for anyone who's interested. The chapter is... well, I found a real howler, but then I have odd taste in entertainment, sometimes, and my enjoyment was almost certainly not by a route the author intended. I'd recommend it just on that basis, regardless of its role in this thread but, uh, only for my fellow weirdos.
  - ch4s3 1y ago
    Yeah, I've read it and I suspect most people commenting here have not and that Edward Zitron did not either.
    - alabastervlog 1y ago
      I figured you had, and posted it for others. Should have made that clearer. FWIW I didn't find Zitron's framing of it misleading, having now read it (I'd read excerpts of that book before, and maybe even that chapter, but couldn't recall for sure, so re-read it just now)
      - ch4s3 1y ago
        Makes sense, and that’s a better quality pdf than the one I had.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y ago
  My point is the author did not say Friedman was racist, you invented that the author said that. Address that, instead of talking about what Friedman say.
  - ch4s3 1y ago
    I’m saying the author frames it that way, and other people here clearly drew that conclusion. The author also took out some of context the clip from the 1970 article.
    - jxjnskkzxxhx 1y ago
      No, you're framing it that way. The author couldve said he's racist, but didnt. Instead made a factually accurate statement.
- surgical_fire 1y ago
  > No, Firedman says that government force isn't the best way to address discrimination. Again the quote is clipped to mislead. Instead he advocated that the absence of regulation would somehow, magically make racists who control capital be not racist anymore. There's nothing misleading in that quote.
  - ch4s3 1y ago
    No he doesn't make that argument at all. He argues that volunteerism over time is a better basis for mutual acceptance than government fiat. He also wasn't against all regulations, and specifically supports regulating positive harms. You could read the chapter yourself in 15 minutes.
    - surgical_fire 1y ago
      > No he doesn't make that argument at all. He argues that volunteerism over time is a better basis for mutual acceptance than government fiat. I know, I just think it is much like believing that fairies exist. Except that believing in fairies causes no harm to society. His beliefs did. > You could read the chapter yourself in 15 minutes. You just presume others didn't read it, when in fact you dislike their interpretations and conclusions after reading it.
      - ch4s3 1y ago
        Anyone claiming that Friedman supported segregation or racism necessarily did not read the chapter. He's quite clear on those points. > Except that believing in fairies causes no harm to society. His beliefs did. I don't agree, and such a banal analogy is not exactly convincing.
        surgical_fire 1y ago
        Yeah. You may have a point. Perhaps believing in fairies does cause harm to society.

ch4s3 1y ago

I'm saying he clipped the quote to give that impression. > He says that Friedman was a fundamentalist and that people should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, and the quote illustrates that well and the context doesn't change anything to that point. No, Firedman says that government force isn't the best way to address discrimination. Again the quote is clipped to mislead.

alabastervlog 1y ago
https://ia803400.us.archive.org/18/items/murdoch-murdoch-book-playlist/Capitalism%20and%20Freedom%20-%20Milton%20Freidman.pdf https://ia803400.us.archive.org/18/items/murdoch-murdoch-boo... Page 93 (as numbered on the pages, IDK which PDF "page" [edit: nb the table of contents gets it wrong, one supposes the pages were re-numbered in the digitization process, or something]) or just search "Capitalism and Discrimination" and it'll get you there fast, for anyone who's interested. The chapter is... well, I found a real howler, but then I have odd taste in entertainment, sometimes, and my enjoyment was almost certainly not by a route the author intended. I'd recommend it just on that basis, regardless of its role in this thread but, uh, only for my fellow weirdos.
- ch4s3 1y ago
  Yeah, I've read it and I suspect most people commenting here have not and that Edward Zitron did not either.
  - alabastervlog 1y ago
    I figured you had, and posted it for others. Should have made that clearer. FWIW I didn't find Zitron's framing of it misleading, having now read it (I'd read excerpts of that book before, and maybe even that chapter, but couldn't recall for sure, so re-read it just now)
    - ch4s3 1y ago
      Makes sense, and that’s a better quality pdf than the one I had.
jxjnskkzxxhx 1y ago
My point is the author did not say Friedman was racist, you invented that the author said that. Address that, instead of talking about what Friedman say.
- ch4s3 1y ago
  I’m saying the author frames it that way, and other people here clearly drew that conclusion. The author also took out some of context the clip from the 1970 article.
  - jxjnskkzxxhx 1y ago
    No, you're framing it that way. The author couldve said he's racist, but didnt. Instead made a factually accurate statement.
surgical_fire 1y ago
> No, Firedman says that government force isn't the best way to address discrimination. Again the quote is clipped to mislead. Instead he advocated that the absence of regulation would somehow, magically make racists who control capital be not racist anymore. There's nothing misleading in that quote.
- ch4s3 1y ago
  No he doesn't make that argument at all. He argues that volunteerism over time is a better basis for mutual acceptance than government fiat. He also wasn't against all regulations, and specifically supports regulating positive harms. You could read the chapter yourself in 15 minutes.
  - surgical_fire 1y ago
    > No he doesn't make that argument at all. He argues that volunteerism over time is a better basis for mutual acceptance than government fiat. I know, I just think it is much like believing that fairies exist. Except that believing in fairies causes no harm to society. His beliefs did. > You could read the chapter yourself in 15 minutes. You just presume others didn't read it, when in fact you dislike their interpretations and conclusions after reading it.
    - ch4s3 1y ago
      Anyone claiming that Friedman supported segregation or racism necessarily did not read the chapter. He's quite clear on those points. > Except that believing in fairies causes no harm to society. His beliefs did. I don't agree, and such a banal analogy is not exactly convincing.
      - surgical_fire 1y ago
        Yeah. You may have a point. Perhaps believing in fairies does cause harm to society.