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Average computer users could probably switch... but it would require one of two things: Some way to make it ridiculously low friction for existing hardware own

Average computer users could probably switch... but it would require one of two things: Some way to make it ridiculously low friction for existing hardware owners to get into Linux. Like, less friction than downloading an ISO, mounting it, and installing it on your computer. Or make computers come with it when people buy them. (This is still vanishingly rare.) ** As a power user... I still have a few issues, some that might be common, and some that might be quite rare/unique to me. For example, post-concussion I really can't stand low refresh rates, and screen brightness is important to me. During my last 2-month Linux experiment, I had issues with controlling those things which was a mix of hardware, drivers, Linux kernel, GPU modes, etc. These sort of issues seem to be less and less common in Linux, and I'm optimistic, but I also am hesitant to sacrifice my own health to make a switch away from Windows. (Mental health aside.) And some games still don't work right, at least not on launch. Which can make me sad as someone who plays games socially. As a photographer, I bought and use DxO PhotoLab. I've compared alternatives, and I like it much better. It doesn't mean I couldn't use darktable but I definitely don't like it anywhere near as much. (And no, DxO does not support Linux.)

twosdai 1y ago
System 76 makes a great product in this space honestly. I always recommend them to people who are interested in trying linux. They ship with linux pre-installed, its exactly like buying a dell with windows. https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ I am not affliated with them, I am a customer and I like their products.
- nicholasjarnold 1y ago
  I concur. I own a System 76 laptop, and it runs PopOS. It's been stable for years (taking the regular updates). They make a variety of hardware products ranging from portable/lightweight laptop to beefy engineering workstation. (also not affiliated with them, just want to support good products/company)
- astrolx 1y ago
  This. I bought a System76 laptop in 2011 which is still working very well with lubuntu for office and browser and such, it's now the laptop of my neighbourhood association. I could without problem upgrade RAM and drive to SSD, I could even swap the keyboard after I broke it. I bought a new one from them this year, still incredible hardware. My only issue with them, which is a big one, is that they ship only from USA. So as EU customer I have to pay VAT on top!
godelski 1y ago
I agree making ISOs is too cumbersome now. But I think the install is 90% there. Realistically hiding options under an advanced menu would make it no different than when you first get a windows or Mac. Fwiw, you can get it preinstalled on System 76, makers of Pop. I'm a bit surprised Framework doesn't do it. But this seems easy to expand ** Maybe I or someone else can help out. What's your distro, GPU, Linux kernel, and driver? Sometimes that interplay can create weird mismatches but I have rarely experienced them in the last 5 years (but extremely common prior to that!). Pop and EndeavourOS specifically target NVIDIA GPUs and can be the easiest "fix". Pop being more Ubuntu like and EndeavourOS being more Archy. Being power user I'd suggest the latter as it has a lot less bloat. Fwiw I daily drive EndeavourOS with a 4080S (previously 3080Ti) without too many problems. Only getting HDR at 60fps when trying to use my TV as a display. Other then that two issues where a kernel driver mismatch happened, solved by a rollback and avoidable by using stable releases. I'm not much of a gamer but will play some AAA and a handful of indie games. Occasional issues like Steam not loading the GUI (right click menu bar and directly open library fixes), and occasionally sync issues because VPN, or minor like needing to launch a game twice. But FWIW, past 3 years I've never needed to touch proton. I'm really hoping SteamOS gets a broader release soon. I'm not sure if I can help much here but I do know graphics cards which might help? I'll definitely agree UI/UX in many apps needs major improvements. I've seen a trend in the right direction though. Alongside the same improvements in OS. We need people to realize that your backend doesn't matter if people can't use it. Design is hard. The magic is the interaction between awesome backend and awesome design. I think this philosophy is growing. Hopefully. Momentum appears to be building
- neogodless 1y ago
  Appreciate it but this was like 18 months ago, on a Lenovo Legion 5 which I've since sold to my niece. Main issue was brightness - basically having to reboot Linux twice to get it to work. Once to switch GPU mode and once to select a kernel because it would often fail to boot for some reason until I went through that. I don't remember the details too well - I documented some here: https://retorch.com/blog/linux-mint.htm https://retorch.com/blog/linux-mint.htm Linux Mint w/ KDE for most of the two month period. Nowadays like 95% of my gaming is Digital Board Games on Steam which I'm mostly quite sure would run fine on Linux. Anno 1800 was one of the rare instances of LAN multiplayer which is rare in games these days and poorly supported. When I'm really active sometimes as a group we'll start a new Survival game together, and it's nice when you can be involved. Games like Valheim run awesome on Linux, and I had no issues with Conan, ARK, etc. Occasionally a game isn't supported and that's when it's a bummer.
caseyy 1y ago
People say more Linux availability would make it mainstream. However, Chromebooks are one of the most available laptops. The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software. That is more than enough for casual computing and office work—two massive segments of the PC user market. And people still don't like them. ChromeOS's market share is similar to that of all the other Linux distributions. I think the Windows and MacOS brands have become lifestyle choices. Windows is the "gamer" and "corporate" choice. MacOS is the "student" and "luxury" choice. Linux is the "hacker" choice (they use Arch, by the way). Like iOS vs Android, Xbox vs PlayStation, Toyota vs BMW, and all other brand tribalisms, it seems like most people are emotionally drawn to one or another.
- __aru 1y ago
  > The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software The problem is that the Play store and Linux environments on ChromeOS are both run in VMs. On a machine with good specs, this is perfectly fine. But when cheaper ChromeOS devices ship with 4GB of RAM, older mediatek APUs, and emmc instead of SSDs, it's just an outright bad experience. If Google starts pushing Android Desktop as a replacement for ChromeOS, I think that could be interesting. Being able to run the Play store without the overhead of a VM will make Android potentially a much better experience than ChromeOS.
  - caseyy 1y ago
    > On a machine with good specs, this is perfectly fine. I think the VMs are fine on the type of machines most people would buy for Windows/macOS. Chromebooks go exceptionally low-spec on the low-end to the point that I'd say their lowest-spec machines probably aren't direct competition for Windows laptops, wouldn't you agree?

twosdai 1y ago

System 76 makes a great product in this space honestly. I always recommend them to people who are interested in trying linux. They ship with linux pre-installed, its exactly like buying a dell with windows. https://system76.com/ https://system76.com/ I am not affliated with them, I am a customer and I like their products.

nicholasjarnold 1y ago
I concur. I own a System 76 laptop, and it runs PopOS. It's been stable for years (taking the regular updates). They make a variety of hardware products ranging from portable/lightweight laptop to beefy engineering workstation. (also not affiliated with them, just want to support good products/company)
astrolx 1y ago
This. I bought a System76 laptop in 2011 which is still working very well with lubuntu for office and browser and such, it's now the laptop of my neighbourhood association. I could without problem upgrade RAM and drive to SSD, I could even swap the keyboard after I broke it. I bought a new one from them this year, still incredible hardware. My only issue with them, which is a big one, is that they ship only from USA. So as EU customer I have to pay VAT on top!

godelski 1y ago

I agree making ISOs is too cumbersome now. But I think the install is 90% there. Realistically hiding options under an advanced menu would make it no different than when you first get a windows or Mac. Fwiw, you can get it preinstalled on System 76, makers of Pop. I'm a bit surprised Framework doesn't do it. But this seems easy to expand ** Maybe I or someone else can help out. What's your distro, GPU, Linux kernel, and driver? Sometimes that interplay can create weird mismatches but I have rarely experienced them in the last 5 years (but extremely common prior to that!). Pop and EndeavourOS specifically target NVIDIA GPUs and can be the easiest "fix". Pop being more Ubuntu like and EndeavourOS being more Archy. Being power user I'd suggest the latter as it has a lot less bloat. Fwiw I daily drive EndeavourOS with a 4080S (previously 3080Ti) without too many problems. Only getting HDR at 60fps when trying to use my TV as a display. Other then that two issues where a kernel driver mismatch happened, solved by a rollback and avoidable by using stable releases. I'm not much of a gamer but will play some AAA and a handful of indie games. Occasional issues like Steam not loading the GUI (right click menu bar and directly open library fixes), and occasionally sync issues because VPN, or minor like needing to launch a game twice. But FWIW, past 3 years I've never needed to touch proton. I'm really hoping SteamOS gets a broader release soon. I'm not sure if I can help much here but I do know graphics cards which might help? I'll definitely agree UI/UX in many apps needs major improvements. I've seen a trend in the right direction though. Alongside the same improvements in OS. We need people to realize that your backend doesn't matter if people can't use it. Design is hard. The magic is the interaction between awesome backend and awesome design. I think this philosophy is growing. Hopefully. Momentum appears to be building

neogodless 1y ago
Appreciate it but this was like 18 months ago, on a Lenovo Legion 5 which I've since sold to my niece. Main issue was brightness - basically having to reboot Linux twice to get it to work. Once to switch GPU mode and once to select a kernel because it would often fail to boot for some reason until I went through that. I don't remember the details too well - I documented some here: https://retorch.com/blog/linux-mint.htm https://retorch.com/blog/linux-mint.htm Linux Mint w/ KDE for most of the two month period. Nowadays like 95% of my gaming is Digital Board Games on Steam which I'm mostly quite sure would run fine on Linux. Anno 1800 was one of the rare instances of LAN multiplayer which is rare in games these days and poorly supported. When I'm really active sometimes as a group we'll start a new Survival game together, and it's nice when you can be involved. Games like Valheim run awesome on Linux, and I had no issues with Conan, ARK, etc. Occasionally a game isn't supported and that's when it's a bummer.

caseyy 1y ago

People say more Linux availability would make it mainstream. However, Chromebooks are one of the most available laptops. The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software. That is more than enough for casual computing and office work—two massive segments of the PC user market. And people still don't like them. ChromeOS's market share is similar to that of all the other Linux distributions. I think the Windows and MacOS brands have become lifestyle choices. Windows is the "gamer" and "corporate" choice. MacOS is the "student" and "luxury" choice. Linux is the "hacker" choice (they use Arch, by the way). Like iOS vs Android, Xbox vs PlayStation, Toyota vs BMW, and all other brand tribalisms, it seems like most people are emotionally drawn to one or another.

__aru 1y ago
> The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software The problem is that the Play store and Linux environments on ChromeOS are both run in VMs. On a machine with good specs, this is perfectly fine. But when cheaper ChromeOS devices ship with 4GB of RAM, older mediatek APUs, and emmc instead of SSDs, it's just an outright bad experience. If Google starts pushing Android Desktop as a replacement for ChromeOS, I think that could be interesting. Being able to run the Play store without the overhead of a VM will make Android potentially a much better experience than ChromeOS.
- caseyy 1y ago
  > On a machine with good specs, this is perfectly fine. I think the VMs are fine on the type of machines most people would buy for Windows/macOS. Chromebooks go exceptionally low-spec on the low-end to the point that I'd say their lowest-spec machines probably aren't direct competition for Windows laptops, wouldn't you agree?