3 ms·

The issue is the payback is not worth the hate from your neighbors and capital cost. at least solar panels are quiet.

by lazide 1y ago

kragen 1y ago
If you have a house, you aren't going to get hate from your neighbors for a tiny turbine like this; it may not be quite as silent as solar panels, but it's pretty quiet.
alex-moon 1y ago
Hence "community energy" - you do it with your neighbours - this model has worked in Scotland before - https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-07-16/rebel-cities-these-community-wind-farms-in-denmark-and-scotland-are-decentralising-power-to-the-people/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-07-16/rebel-cities-t... - here is one from earlier this year - https://www.thenational.scot/news/24993445.local-groups-bid-create-largest-community-owned-scottish-wind-farm/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/24993445.local-groups-bid-... - and recent changes in planning legislation mean we should be seeing more of these in England in the near future - https://communityenergyengland.org/pages/community-wind https://communityenergyengland.org/pages/community-wind
- kragen 1y ago
  Community energy makes sense for 2,000,000-watt windmills like the ones in your first article, but not for a 600-watt rooftop windmill that's less than a meter across. The 2,000,000-watt windmill ought to cost less per watt, but it requires successfully coordinating the community to support it (cf. the note in your third link about a "de facto ban on new onshore wind projects" being lifted). And looking at https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/wind/chart-wind-turbine-prices-surged-to-decade-high-in-2022 https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/wind/chart-wind-turbine... it looks like over the period 02015 to 02022 the prices of big windmills consistently stayed in the range of 80¢ to 130¢ per peak watt, which is actually more than the 50¢ per peak watt of the mail-order Amazon rooftop windmill. (The rooftop windmill will probably enjoy significantly lower capacity factors, but it's clearly in the same ballpark.) This was surprising to me, since I thought big windmills were much cheaper per watt, so I dug a bit further. The figures check out. The current https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80kv5d7lp7o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80kv5d7lp7o says a £40 million (US$52 million) onshore Manx wind farm might have "up to 5 turbines", and thus up to 10 megawatts, putting the total project cost closer to US$5/Wp. https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost/pdf/capital_cost_AEO2020.pdf#page=150 https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost... from 02019 has a capital cost breakdown of a 200MW hypothetical wind project costing US$253 million, consisting of 71 2.8-MW windmills, totaling US$1265/kW (127¢/Wp). About 60% of that (80¢/Wp) is "WTG [windmill] procurement and supply". A 50MW hypothetical wind project in the next section comes in at 168¢/Wp, and a 400MW hypothetical offshore wind project in the next section is 438¢/Wp. So it's not at all clear to me that community wind energy, or utility-scale wind energy in general, is even cheaper or more efficient than mail-order rooftop windmills. It might be more expensive!

The issue is the payback is not worth the hate from your neighbors and capital cost. at least solar panels are quiet.

by lazide 1y ago

The issue is the payback is not worth the hate from your neighbors and capital cost. at least solar panels are quiet.

If you have a house, you aren't going to get hate from your neighbors for a tiny turbine like this; it may not be quite as silent as solar panels, but it's pretty quiet.

alex-moon 1y ago

Hence "community energy" - you do it with your neighbours - this model has worked in Scotland before - https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-07-16/rebel-cities-these-community-wind-farms-in-denmark-and-scotland-are-decentralising-power-to-the-people/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-07-16/rebel-cities-t... - here is one from earlier this year - https://www.thenational.scot/news/24993445.local-groups-bid-create-largest-community-owned-scottish-wind-farm/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/24993445.local-groups-bid-... - and recent changes in planning legislation mean we should be seeing more of these in England in the near future - https://communityenergyengland.org/pages/community-wind https://communityenergyengland.org/pages/community-wind

kragen 1y ago
Community energy makes sense for 2,000,000-watt windmills like the ones in your first article, but not for a 600-watt rooftop windmill that's less than a meter across. The 2,000,000-watt windmill ought to cost less per watt, but it requires successfully coordinating the community to support it (cf. the note in your third link about a "de facto ban on new onshore wind projects" being lifted). And looking at https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/wind/chart-wind-turbine-prices-surged-to-decade-high-in-2022 https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/wind/chart-wind-turbine... it looks like over the period 02015 to 02022 the prices of big windmills consistently stayed in the range of 80¢ to 130¢ per peak watt, which is actually more than the 50¢ per peak watt of the mail-order Amazon rooftop windmill. (The rooftop windmill will probably enjoy significantly lower capacity factors, but it's clearly in the same ballpark.) This was surprising to me, since I thought big windmills were much cheaper per watt, so I dug a bit further. The figures check out. The current https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80kv5d7lp7o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80kv5d7lp7o says a £40 million (US$52 million) onshore Manx wind farm might have "up to 5 turbines", and thus up to 10 megawatts, putting the total project cost closer to US$5/Wp. https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost/pdf/capital_cost_AEO2020.pdf#page=150 https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost... from 02019 has a capital cost breakdown of a 200MW hypothetical wind project costing US$253 million, consisting of 71 2.8-MW windmills, totaling US$1265/kW (127¢/Wp). About 60% of that (80¢/Wp) is "WTG [windmill] procurement and supply". A 50MW hypothetical wind project in the next section comes in at 168¢/Wp, and a 400MW hypothetical offshore wind project in the next section is 438¢/Wp. So it's not at all clear to me that community wind energy, or utility-scale wind energy in general, is even cheaper or more efficient than mail-order rooftop windmills. It might be more expensive!