4 ms·

Good point but I think these are about the choices you make. You can choose to look after your metallurgist who become obsolete as a laborers but I'm sure they

by mrtksn 1y ago

Good point but I think these are about the choices you make. You can choose to look after your metallurgist who become obsolete as a laborers but I'm sure they are amazing people. You might be worried for becoming communist or welfare state though. You can choose to limit trade and other freedoms so you can artificially keep metallurgists at work so you don't have to share what you have with them without exchanging something. This can help you can feel good about not giving away freebies and pretend that this is a meritocracy but suffer from slow progress and other conflicts related in preserving these artificial limits. You can just choose to leave them to suffer as long as their numbers are not enough to bother you. This one gives you the good life until suddenly it stops doing that if the numbers go up enough. I guess in this case it was to ignore the "losers" in the system until they become numerous enough to tear down the whole system. A lot of people who vote for obvious frauds and outright fascists(I'm not talking about USA, but in general) are just anti-establishment who don't mean bad but just want to see the current order teared apart at any price.

sgc 1y ago
> who don't mean bad but just want to see the current order teared apart at any price. That sounds like a terribly bad intention to me. Significant destruction of social order leads to either authoritarianism or anarchy. Neither are even remotely desirable. The only sane path to deep, lasting, but also healthy change is to systematically work on each specific sector - only dismantling while building something better at the same time. Otherwise you are just an agent of suffering. This pathological egoism does not qualify, even remotely, as "don't mean bad".
- mrtksn 1y ago
  Sure its bad but its worse for those who have it good. Also, people don't plan or predict every outcome, they just want change and when that change is denied that's how we have civil wars. It all starts with a peaceful protest or some petty grievances and keeps growing when ignored or dismissed.
  - sgc 1y ago
    Yes, people do terrible things by neglecting their moral duty to actually think things through. This is a very basic known truth.
Draiken 1y ago
> pretend that this is a meritocracy That is unfortunately all we do today. If you think our current system is a meritocratic one, do I have some bad news for you. > You might be worried for becoming communist or welfare state though. What does communism have to do with anything parent wrote?
IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago
I will make you a deal. I will accept this premise of "choice" with 1 condition. I will personally advocate for tariffs at 0% worldwide in 2030, if in the interim, ALL permits required to have or work as : - an accredited university - work in national security, - or in university professors (economists!), - accountant - lawyer - pharmacist - insurance brokers - any other white-collar profession, etc Are rescinded. All of them. So, anyone from abroad can open a university tomorrow, and get student loans, grants etc money. Or, anyone from china can come and become an accountant, if E&Y wants to hire them , either remotely, or in person. Up to E&Y. Yes, those in person workers would use temporary (seasonal visas) for those jobs. So someone from China can come and teach econometrics at Stanford if Stanford wishes to hire them for 8 months (the undergrad season). Or someone can start a new Stanford in Bangalore, or whatever. In other words. You don't need a license or some kind of permit to practice as a professor, or at a desk job at Raytheon. Do you accept ? My point. White collars are are protected by the state. In the real world, i've come to learn that "free trade" doesnt actually mean "unrestricted free trade" . Its just an excellent sleight of hand to say "free trade" when in the real world, the position you actually advocate is to sacrifice the have nots, while leaving the elites untouched

by mrtksn 1y ago

sgc 1y ago

> who don't mean bad but just want to see the current order teared apart at any price. That sounds like a terribly bad intention to me. Significant destruction of social order leads to either authoritarianism or anarchy. Neither are even remotely desirable. The only sane path to deep, lasting, but also healthy change is to systematically work on each specific sector - only dismantling while building something better at the same time. Otherwise you are just an agent of suffering. This pathological egoism does not qualify, even remotely, as "don't mean bad".

mrtksn 1y ago
Sure its bad but its worse for those who have it good. Also, people don't plan or predict every outcome, they just want change and when that change is denied that's how we have civil wars. It all starts with a peaceful protest or some petty grievances and keeps growing when ignored or dismissed.
- sgc 1y ago
  Yes, people do terrible things by neglecting their moral duty to actually think things through. This is a very basic known truth.

Draiken 1y ago

> pretend that this is a meritocracy That is unfortunately all we do today. If you think our current system is a meritocratic one, do I have some bad news for you. > You might be worried for becoming communist or welfare state though. What does communism have to do with anything parent wrote?

IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago

I will make you a deal. I will accept this premise of "choice" with 1 condition. I will personally advocate for tariffs at 0% worldwide in 2030, if in the interim, ALL permits required to have or work as : - an accredited university - work in national security, - or in university professors (economists!), - accountant - lawyer - pharmacist - insurance brokers - any other white-collar profession, etc Are rescinded. All of them. So, anyone from abroad can open a university tomorrow, and get student loans, grants etc money. Or, anyone from china can come and become an accountant, if E&Y wants to hire them , either remotely, or in person. Up to E&Y. Yes, those in person workers would use temporary (seasonal visas) for those jobs. So someone from China can come and teach econometrics at Stanford if Stanford wishes to hire them for 8 months (the undergrad season). Or someone can start a new Stanford in Bangalore, or whatever. In other words. You don't need a license or some kind of permit to practice as a professor, or at a desk job at Raytheon. Do you accept ? My point. White collars are are protected by the state. In the real world, i've come to learn that "free trade" doesnt actually mean "unrestricted free trade" . Its just an excellent sleight of hand to say "free trade" when in the real world, the position you actually advocate is to sacrifice the have nots, while leaving the elites untouched