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At least in the case of AI the _theoretical_ benefits are there, whereas crypto is wasteful _by design_. Whether the cost/benefit works out in the case of AI i

At least in the case of AI the _theoretical_ benefits are there, whereas crypto is wasteful _by design_. Whether the cost/benefit works out in the case of AI is another question.

phillipcarter 1y ago
Yeah, it's a different compute/cost curve worth considering. On one hand, the cost of compute per token has gone down a lot, and will continue to go down, because that's exactly the economic incentives at play. We had a little short-term nonsense where "the bigger the better" was all the rage, but inference was never this way, and now training is also pushing in this direction. But on the other hand, less compute per token means it can be more broadly deployed. And so there is likely more energy use, not less, in the long run.
DavidSJ 1y ago
I agree with you that AI has much larger theoretical benefits than cryptocurrency, but I don’t think it’s fair to say cryptocurrency is wasteful by design. Bitcoin’s proof of work serves a vital function: securing the network from double-spending attacks. At the time of bitcoin’s invention, it was the only known solution to that problem, so it’s no more “wasteful by design” than a bank hiring a security guard. There are admittedly alternatives to proof of work today; I’m unsure how well they work by comparison, but even if they suffice for security, that only means that bitcoin is wasteful due to being more primitive technology, not by design.
- DonaldFisk 1y ago
  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake#Energy_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake#Energy_consumpt...
drdrey 1y ago
Proof of work is wasteful by design
ddq 1y ago
Meanwhile the theoretical potential existential risks of advanced AI massively eclipse the capacity of crypto for catastrophic harm. The _good_ ending is if we merely waste a bunch of energy on slop machines to put millions of people out of work for the technofeudal overlords; an actual AGI breakthrough capable of exponential intelligence growth could go horribly wrong in ways already innumerably theorized and illustrated in science fiction and the mad scientists of silicon valley are enchanted by the siren's call, taking the warnings as instructions. Economic chaos is one thing, Skynet is another. And then people with the power are stupid and evil. Joy.

At least in the case of AI the _theoretical_ benefits are there, whereas crypto is wasteful _by design_. Whether the cost/benefit works out in the case of AI is another question.

phillipcarter 1y ago

Yeah, it's a different compute/cost curve worth considering. On one hand, the cost of compute per token has gone down a lot, and will continue to go down, because that's exactly the economic incentives at play. We had a little short-term nonsense where "the bigger the better" was all the rage, but inference was never this way, and now training is also pushing in this direction. But on the other hand, less compute per token means it can be more broadly deployed. And so there is likely more energy use, not less, in the long run.

DavidSJ 1y ago

I agree with you that AI has much larger theoretical benefits than cryptocurrency, but I don’t think it’s fair to say cryptocurrency is wasteful by design. Bitcoin’s proof of work serves a vital function: securing the network from double-spending attacks. At the time of bitcoin’s invention, it was the only known solution to that problem, so it’s no more “wasteful by design” than a bank hiring a security guard. There are admittedly alternatives to proof of work today; I’m unsure how well they work by comparison, but even if they suffice for security, that only means that bitcoin is wasteful due to being more primitive technology, not by design.

DonaldFisk 1y ago
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake#Energy_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake#Energy_consumpt...

drdrey 1y ago

Proof of work is wasteful by design

ddq 1y ago

Meanwhile the theoretical potential existential risks of advanced AI massively eclipse the capacity of crypto for catastrophic harm. The _good_ ending is if we merely waste a bunch of energy on slop machines to put millions of people out of work for the technofeudal overlords; an actual AGI breakthrough capable of exponential intelligence growth could go horribly wrong in ways already innumerably theorized and illustrated in science fiction and the mad scientists of silicon valley are enchanted by the siren's call, taking the warnings as instructions. Economic chaos is one thing, Skynet is another. And then people with the power are stupid and evil. Joy.