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> you can get extremely good (studio quality) sounds with a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier Yes, exactly. Does a guitar that costs €1200 sound and (eq

> you can get extremely good (studio quality) sounds with a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier Yes, exactly. Does a guitar that costs €1200 sound and (equally importantly) feel even better? Yes, in my opinion - but with modern instruments, diminishing returns do set in quite quickly. I noted this comment from the guy in the article: "All the guitars they made after [1964] were junk.” Utter nonsense. I can't stand that kind of boomer gatekeeping.

criddell 1y ago
Justin Sandercoe (Justin Guitar on YouTube) did a series[1] where he bought the cheapest electric guitar on Amazon (£60 I think) and then had a guitar tech friend of his do a complete setup. Many times through the series both Justin and the tech remarked at how good the £60 guitar is. The problem with buying an inexpensive guitar is mostly psychological. Do you really want to pay for a $200 setup on a $100 guitar? People don't and so they end up learning on a guitar that could be so much better for a small investment. Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine fame is well known for doing amazing things with budget tools[2]. [1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0SHE_xooyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0SHE_xooyU [2]:https://www.instagram.com/p/CN3h__xjFTJ/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CN3h__xjFTJ/
- cpursley 1y ago
  Toms amps were anything but budget. Electric guitar tone is 75% a good tube amp with rest being pickups and intonation.
  - criddell 1y ago
    The amp in that photo is a 20 watt solid state practice amp. Those usually aren't very expensive.
  - mrob 1y ago
    Jim Lill has a video testing amp tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBEOcPtlYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBEOcPtlYk It's almost entirely EQ and distortion, applied in various orders (the exact signal chain matters, because EQ after distortion sounds different than distortion after EQ). By getting this right you can simulate any tube amp tone with solid state to a high degree of accuracy.
    - cpursley 1y ago
      Sure but it’s only been relatively recently that the modeling and solid state stuff has gotten close. And even then, it’s still not quite right. Also, even a good solid state or modeling amp is gonna cost a decent amount. Luckily, we have more choices than ever, and I even have a tube powered preamp that’s absolutely killer paired with an IR cab response loader.
  - entropicdrifter 1y ago
    Electric guitar tone is ~95% the tone of the speaker, distortion (if applicable), room/mic positioning, and EQ
  - jimnotgym 1y ago
    And a million dollars of studio equipment to record it
    - mrob 1y ago
      Close mic it with a SM57 like your favorite recordings probably did. You don't need any fancy room treatment when close micing. Or just run the direct input through an amp sim and cab impulse response. Unless you're going for a 1950s sound where mechanical speaker distortion actually matters, IRs capture the cab/mic sound very well.
  - arprocter 1y ago
    iirc a 50W JCM800 into a Peavey 4x12 The heads aren't so cheap these days, but not particularly hard to come by
jhpacker 1y ago
I agree with your take. I've definitely owned and played some excellent sub-$1000 guitars, but at the lower price points things it can be frustrating to deal with things like low-quality tuners, improperly shielded components, etc. I'd say 90% is about pickups, strings, and frets. Most of the 60s guitars I've played were not great tbh.
- atoav 1y ago
  The channel I mentioned measured the internal cabling of an 60s Les Paul and it had a WILD capacitance swing changing with humidity (more than 100% of the orignal value). Meaning the capacitance-induceed resonant frequency of the guitar would shift strongly over the course of a gig. Needless to say, this is probably not a thing anybody is looking for.
atoav 1y ago
That was my point. I play a US Strat, that now costs more than 1200 Euros. The guitar I got for my family member plays just as good. And that isn't because my Strat plays bad, I play that instrument since 15 years and it is setup correctly etc. That is because the new cheap guitars can be (depending on the manufacturer) really good nowadays. I have to admit I felt a bit of envy with my family member, because during my youth this was a fucking struggle, with weird Squires that had all kind of problems and twisty necks and whatnot. Of course the cheap guitar doesn't add the placebo effect of having a guitar with the real Fender logo to it. And if you're struggling to get out good sounds you might feel that the only thing that will make you sound better is that Fender logo. Probably everybody goes through that stage at some point during their instrument-playing. But as of now I am good enough of a guitar/bass player that I stopped caring about brands for the most part. There is big brands with shit products and small brands with good stuff. Brands do not matter nearly as much as the press or guitar snobs say.

criddell 1y ago

Justin Sandercoe (Justin Guitar on YouTube) did a series[1] where he bought the cheapest electric guitar on Amazon (£60 I think) and then had a guitar tech friend of his do a complete setup. Many times through the series both Justin and the tech remarked at how good the £60 guitar is. The problem with buying an inexpensive guitar is mostly psychological. Do you really want to pay for a $200 setup on a $100 guitar? People don't and so they end up learning on a guitar that could be so much better for a small investment. Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine fame is well known for doing amazing things with budget tools[2]. [1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0SHE_xooyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0SHE_xooyU [2]:https://www.instagram.com/p/CN3h__xjFTJ/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CN3h__xjFTJ/

cpursley 1y ago
Toms amps were anything but budget. Electric guitar tone is 75% a good tube amp with rest being pickups and intonation.
- criddell 1y ago
  The amp in that photo is a 20 watt solid state practice amp. Those usually aren't very expensive.
- mrob 1y ago
  Jim Lill has a video testing amp tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBEOcPtlYk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcBEOcPtlYk It's almost entirely EQ and distortion, applied in various orders (the exact signal chain matters, because EQ after distortion sounds different than distortion after EQ). By getting this right you can simulate any tube amp tone with solid state to a high degree of accuracy.
  - cpursley 1y ago
    Sure but it’s only been relatively recently that the modeling and solid state stuff has gotten close. And even then, it’s still not quite right. Also, even a good solid state or modeling amp is gonna cost a decent amount. Luckily, we have more choices than ever, and I even have a tube powered preamp that’s absolutely killer paired with an IR cab response loader.
- entropicdrifter 1y ago
  Electric guitar tone is ~95% the tone of the speaker, distortion (if applicable), room/mic positioning, and EQ
- jimnotgym 1y ago
  And a million dollars of studio equipment to record it
  - mrob 1y ago
    Close mic it with a SM57 like your favorite recordings probably did. You don't need any fancy room treatment when close micing. Or just run the direct input through an amp sim and cab impulse response. Unless you're going for a 1950s sound where mechanical speaker distortion actually matters, IRs capture the cab/mic sound very well.
- arprocter 1y ago
  iirc a 50W JCM800 into a Peavey 4x12 The heads aren't so cheap these days, but not particularly hard to come by

jhpacker 1y ago

I agree with your take. I've definitely owned and played some excellent sub-$1000 guitars, but at the lower price points things it can be frustrating to deal with things like low-quality tuners, improperly shielded components, etc. I'd say 90% is about pickups, strings, and frets. Most of the 60s guitars I've played were not great tbh.

atoav 1y ago
The channel I mentioned measured the internal cabling of an 60s Les Paul and it had a WILD capacitance swing changing with humidity (more than 100% of the orignal value). Meaning the capacitance-induceed resonant frequency of the guitar would shift strongly over the course of a gig. Needless to say, this is probably not a thing anybody is looking for.

atoav 1y ago

That was my point. I play a US Strat, that now costs more than 1200 Euros. The guitar I got for my family member plays just as good. And that isn't because my Strat plays bad, I play that instrument since 15 years and it is setup correctly etc. That is because the new cheap guitars can be (depending on the manufacturer) really good nowadays. I have to admit I felt a bit of envy with my family member, because during my youth this was a fucking struggle, with weird Squires that had all kind of problems and twisty necks and whatnot. Of course the cheap guitar doesn't add the placebo effect of having a guitar with the real Fender logo to it. And if you're struggling to get out good sounds you might feel that the only thing that will make you sound better is that Fender logo. Probably everybody goes through that stage at some point during their instrument-playing. But as of now I am good enough of a guitar/bass player that I stopped caring about brands for the most part. There is big brands with shit products and small brands with good stuff. Brands do not matter nearly as much as the press or guitar snobs say.