4 ms·

I was really hoping to hear some insight from these ex-employees about the google culture to see how it compares to my disillusionment with a "cool" big company

by far33d 18y ago

I was really hoping to hear some insight from these ex-employees about the google culture to see how it compares to my disillusionment with a "cool" big company. Instead, most of the comments (I couldn't get through all of them) were whining about benefits, pay, and snack stations. Seriously? As a friend of mine tweeted the other day about my old company - "people are getting laid off. stop complaining about the lack of free beer this friday".

redrobot5050 18y ago
I remember reading an article by Neil Strauss in Rolling Stone covering Jenna Jamison, the notorious adult film star and the adult industry in general. Since Neil was sent "on set" while Jenna was filming, a lot of the article details him talking to people that work in the industry (journeyman/freelance make up artists, camera men, sound guys, Male "Actors"). One thing that stuck out to Neil that he drew attention to is what these guys bullshitted about at work: Sports. Kids. Health Care. Wages. Tax tips (since they're all contractors). The reason I bring this up is to make this point: No matter how mundane or bizarre your industry, people still have the same genuine needs. A company that addresses those needs in a superb factor will have loyal employees. If Google is subpar in salary and puts people in jobs that're menial and they're overqualified for them, they will get bored and they will leave. I can't simplify it any more than that. Any company with 18,000 employees can't rely on "cool" to motivate. For an easy 17,000 of those workers, money (or stock options) is the biggest motivator. A lot can be said about this, but I'll go out on this note: Not all of the world's greatest problem solvers are in their mid-20s and are motivated by the "cool" factor of a web app and think in Python. The majority of people, in any field, are motivated by money. Microsoft pays in the 68th percentile for a reason. You'll never be rich, but you'll always be comfortable. And yes, intelligent 24 year old Standford CS grad should feel like there's something more to life than supporting Google AdWords code, which, according to other internet rants, is simply a frustrating experience.
- far33d 18y ago
  Exactly - I expected more of the frustration to be about the menial work and how people weren't feeling motivated, not how annoyed they were when google skimped on snacks.
  - redrobot5050 18y ago
    I haven't read it all, but only one person was complaining about snacks. Most complaints, as far as I can tell (having been shafted by companies, and also having found great matches) seem legitimate. The big complaint about food is that it seems its expected to work after dinner, and that a lot of politicking happens after dinner as well. The people who go and be social at the dinners tend to get the "cool" assignments. Others tend to be multiple bosses, inability to shift projects, or just a better offer came along. That said, I don't think these people are "bitching" or disgruntled. Google asked for their brutal honesty (which deserves credit) and they're being open about it. Not everyone is going to find Google to be a perfect match. And for tech firms that aren't Google, that's a good thing.
- nostrademons 18y ago
  Google's "official" hiring docs say that they pay in the 75th percentile, with stock options in the 90th percentile. I'm not sure if that's true, but then, I'm not sure if Microsoft's claim of paying in the 68th percentile is true either. From the Envy data someone else posted on the thread, it looked like Google engineers were being paid just slightly more than their Microsoft counterparts.
  - icefox 18y ago
    I have only ever heard of one person getting a better offer at Google, but I have heard countless times of people getting low offers or taking a pay cut to work for Google. So to see so many leave because of pay in the end isn't surprising. Working on cool things only gets you so far (six months? a year?) When your friend gets more then double your salary then you for doing something much easier and has a better out of work life it really makes you wonder if there isn't something better. Perhaps not Google, but a nice place to work now that google is on your resume.
    - nostrademons 18y ago
      Could be selection bias. People who got a better offer at Google tend not to trumpet it, they just work there and keep quiet about salary. After all, why make your employer think that they're overpaying you?
  - ars 18y ago
    Is that 75th up or down?
    - nostrademons 18y ago
      75th up, i.e. 25% of the time you likely could find a better offer than Google, 75% of the time it'd be your best offer. I have no idea how they calibrate it.

by far33d 18y ago

redrobot5050 18y ago

I remember reading an article by Neil Strauss in Rolling Stone covering Jenna Jamison, the notorious adult film star and the adult industry in general. Since Neil was sent "on set" while Jenna was filming, a lot of the article details him talking to people that work in the industry (journeyman/freelance make up artists, camera men, sound guys, Male "Actors"). One thing that stuck out to Neil that he drew attention to is what these guys bullshitted about at work: Sports. Kids. Health Care. Wages. Tax tips (since they're all contractors). The reason I bring this up is to make this point: No matter how mundane or bizarre your industry, people still have the same genuine needs. A company that addresses those needs in a superb factor will have loyal employees. If Google is subpar in salary and puts people in jobs that're menial and they're overqualified for them, they will get bored and they will leave. I can't simplify it any more than that. Any company with 18,000 employees can't rely on "cool" to motivate. For an easy 17,000 of those workers, money (or stock options) is the biggest motivator. A lot can be said about this, but I'll go out on this note: Not all of the world's greatest problem solvers are in their mid-20s and are motivated by the "cool" factor of a web app and think in Python. The majority of people, in any field, are motivated by money. Microsoft pays in the 68th percentile for a reason. You'll never be rich, but you'll always be comfortable. And yes, intelligent 24 year old Standford CS grad should feel like there's something more to life than supporting Google AdWords code, which, according to other internet rants, is simply a frustrating experience.

far33d 18y ago
Exactly - I expected more of the frustration to be about the menial work and how people weren't feeling motivated, not how annoyed they were when google skimped on snacks.
- redrobot5050 18y ago
  I haven't read it all, but only one person was complaining about snacks. Most complaints, as far as I can tell (having been shafted by companies, and also having found great matches) seem legitimate. The big complaint about food is that it seems its expected to work after dinner, and that a lot of politicking happens after dinner as well. The people who go and be social at the dinners tend to get the "cool" assignments. Others tend to be multiple bosses, inability to shift projects, or just a better offer came along. That said, I don't think these people are "bitching" or disgruntled. Google asked for their brutal honesty (which deserves credit) and they're being open about it. Not everyone is going to find Google to be a perfect match. And for tech firms that aren't Google, that's a good thing.
nostrademons 18y ago
Google's "official" hiring docs say that they pay in the 75th percentile, with stock options in the 90th percentile. I'm not sure if that's true, but then, I'm not sure if Microsoft's claim of paying in the 68th percentile is true either. From the Envy data someone else posted on the thread, it looked like Google engineers were being paid just slightly more than their Microsoft counterparts.
- icefox 18y ago
  I have only ever heard of one person getting a better offer at Google, but I have heard countless times of people getting low offers or taking a pay cut to work for Google. So to see so many leave because of pay in the end isn't surprising. Working on cool things only gets you so far (six months? a year?) When your friend gets more then double your salary then you for doing something much easier and has a better out of work life it really makes you wonder if there isn't something better. Perhaps not Google, but a nice place to work now that google is on your resume.
  - nostrademons 18y ago
    Could be selection bias. People who got a better offer at Google tend not to trumpet it, they just work there and keep quiet about salary. After all, why make your employer think that they're overpaying you?
- ars 18y ago
  Is that 75th up or down?
  - nostrademons 18y ago
    75th up, i.e. 25% of the time you likely could find a better offer than Google, 75% of the time it'd be your best offer. I have no idea how they calibrate it.