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> rubber on roads Funny how this suddenly became a thing after electrification became a thing. Need to find a new way to wag the finger after all.

by jbm 1y ago

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
Well many of my fellow Americans would only accept an EV if it's gigantic, and even though I can't leave the house without seeing a Prius or a RAV4 hybrid, the news acts like it's gas versus electric as if Toyota hadn't solved this twenty years ago
phillipcarter 1y ago
It's always been a thing? I'm pro-electrification, BTW.
- floxy 1y ago
  >It's always been a thing? Is there a way to quantify this? My experience as well is that the tire particulate pollution has mostly been an anti-EV talking point.
- jbm 1y ago
  I am 100% on the side of reducing pollutants — but this was never publicly seen as a major issue and I'm suspicious about the timing. The oil industry is a conglomerate of degenerates spamming boomer logic all the way down to the workers. Their memes propagate throughout society and lead to the other boomer characteristic of rewriting personal and societal history. The finger waggers now are being programmed to pretend they talked about tire particulates and the carheads are being programmed to pretend they never cared about 0-60. This another "We have always been at war with Eastasia", just like they all opposed the Iraq war from day 1 and didn't cancel the Dixie Chicks, et cetra. This may have been discussed in specialist literature somewhere but even when I did ecology courses in university circa 2001ish, I never heard about tire particulates, while I did hear a lot about greenhouse gasses. It's a concern but not a civilization ending concern like climate change. I low key resent these attempts to move goalposts to satisfy the writer's urge for negativity.
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    It's pretty clearly a talking point. Consider that a bus has six to ten tires that each weigh around ten times more than a typical car tire. This is presented as the alternative to cars, is it even any different? Not implausible that it could actually be worse, especially if the bus isn't at full occupancy at all times. Meanwhile the weight difference between EVs and petroleum cars is emphasized in the complaints, even though it isn't very large, while the much larger weight difference between any cars and buses is ignored. Because the point isn't to complain about tires, it's to complain about EVs. And if the point actually was to complain about tires then you still wouldn't be talking about EVs, you would be talking about tires and how to make them shed less or construct them out of lower toxicity materials etc.
    - hansvm 1y ago
      Last time I did the math, a Tesla Model Y only had 3x less tire emissions than a semi truck per distance traveled. City buses are on-par with a Tesla Model Y if you only care about mL/km tire wear.
      - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
        How is that math supposed to work when a city bus weighs almost ten times as much and has more and bigger tires?
        hansvm 1y ago
        The city bus uses tires with a harder rubber and dimensions such that the pressure at the road is less, plus its normal driving patterns have less wear than typical Tesla use. To make those sorts of calculations easy, you can ignore all the pressure/usage/etc nonsense and just do basic math on tire dimensions (including min/max tread depth and width, not just radius, though I typically ignore siping and whatnot) and typical longevity. Volume lost per mile driven is basic high-school arithmetic, and the only real questions are regarding data quality and whether the self-imposed constraints (e.g., examining real-world wear rather than wear given optimal driving or something) are reasonable.
wat10000 1y ago
This is normal. Once you solve the biggest problem, something else becomes the new biggest problem. The biggest problem with tailpipe emissions used to be horrendous smog. That was mostly solved in many places, and now the biggest problem is the impact on the global climate. The biggest issue with childhood mortality used to be disease. Now we (correctly) focus more on accidental deaths. EVs solved tailpipe emissions, but they’re not perfect. Their biggest problem is just something else.

> rubber on roads Funny how this suddenly became a thing after electrification became a thing. Need to find a new way to wag the finger after all.

by jbm 1y ago

> rubber on roads Funny how this suddenly became a thing after electrification became a thing. Need to find a new way to wag the finger after all.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago

Well many of my fellow Americans would only accept an EV if it's gigantic, and even though I can't leave the house without seeing a Prius or a RAV4 hybrid, the news acts like it's gas versus electric as if Toyota hadn't solved this twenty years ago

phillipcarter 1y ago

It's always been a thing? I'm pro-electrification, BTW.

floxy 1y ago
>It's always been a thing? Is there a way to quantify this? My experience as well is that the tire particulate pollution has mostly been an anti-EV talking point.
jbm 1y ago
I am 100% on the side of reducing pollutants — but this was never publicly seen as a major issue and I'm suspicious about the timing. The oil industry is a conglomerate of degenerates spamming boomer logic all the way down to the workers. Their memes propagate throughout society and lead to the other boomer characteristic of rewriting personal and societal history. The finger waggers now are being programmed to pretend they talked about tire particulates and the carheads are being programmed to pretend they never cared about 0-60. This another "We have always been at war with Eastasia", just like they all opposed the Iraq war from day 1 and didn't cancel the Dixie Chicks, et cetra. This may have been discussed in specialist literature somewhere but even when I did ecology courses in university circa 2001ish, I never heard about tire particulates, while I did hear a lot about greenhouse gasses. It's a concern but not a civilization ending concern like climate change. I low key resent these attempts to move goalposts to satisfy the writer's urge for negativity.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  It's pretty clearly a talking point. Consider that a bus has six to ten tires that each weigh around ten times more than a typical car tire. This is presented as the alternative to cars, is it even any different? Not implausible that it could actually be worse, especially if the bus isn't at full occupancy at all times. Meanwhile the weight difference between EVs and petroleum cars is emphasized in the complaints, even though it isn't very large, while the much larger weight difference between any cars and buses is ignored. Because the point isn't to complain about tires, it's to complain about EVs. And if the point actually was to complain about tires then you still wouldn't be talking about EVs, you would be talking about tires and how to make them shed less or construct them out of lower toxicity materials etc.
  - hansvm 1y ago
    Last time I did the math, a Tesla Model Y only had 3x less tire emissions than a semi truck per distance traveled. City buses are on-par with a Tesla Model Y if you only care about mL/km tire wear.
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      How is that math supposed to work when a city bus weighs almost ten times as much and has more and bigger tires?
      - hansvm 1y ago
        The city bus uses tires with a harder rubber and dimensions such that the pressure at the road is less, plus its normal driving patterns have less wear than typical Tesla use. To make those sorts of calculations easy, you can ignore all the pressure/usage/etc nonsense and just do basic math on tire dimensions (including min/max tread depth and width, not just radius, though I typically ignore siping and whatnot) and typical longevity. Volume lost per mile driven is basic high-school arithmetic, and the only real questions are regarding data quality and whether the self-imposed constraints (e.g., examining real-world wear rather than wear given optimal driving or something) are reasonable.

wat10000 1y ago

This is normal. Once you solve the biggest problem, something else becomes the new biggest problem. The biggest problem with tailpipe emissions used to be horrendous smog. That was mostly solved in many places, and now the biggest problem is the impact on the global climate. The biggest issue with childhood mortality used to be disease. Now we (correctly) focus more on accidental deaths. EVs solved tailpipe emissions, but they’re not perfect. Their biggest problem is just something else.