4 ms·

I'm a huge fan of 37signals, their products and their philosophy, but not to the point that I blindly follow their 'Getting Real' philosophy like a lot of peopl

I'm a huge fan of 37signals, their products and their philosophy, but not to the point that I blindly follow their 'Getting Real' philosophy like a lot of people seem to do. I have followed and applied some of their ideas - some worked like a charm, others failed horribly. It's been written and mentioned countless times that this isn't a 'one size fits all' philosophy, and what works for them doesn't necessarily work for all, or even the majority, of people out there.

ryanwaggoner 18y ago
Yeah, but I think many people's problem with 37signals is that their attitude is that one-size-fits-all and that because something worked for them, that's the only correct way of doing it.
- jasonfried 18y ago
  If there's one thing we've said more than any other thing it's that our ideas are not one size-fit-all. There are a lot of different ways to do things. We only have the answers that work for us. We don't pretend to have your answers. That said, we don't preempt everything we say with "it depends." Reasonable people understand that everything depends. We simply share our way based on our experience. Take whatever value you find and leave the rest behind. From the front pages of our book: http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_and_other_preemptive_strikes.php http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_an...
  - axod 18y ago
    I think it'd be really neat to have on that disclaimer page: "We acknowledge a large part of our own success is due to our popular blog. Unless you have a popular blog, some of the advice may not work for you" From "Founders at work", Joel Spolsky when asked for advice for startups: "I would recommend that you create a weblog and have millions of readers every month from around the world that read it. That's not really necessarily followable." I thought that was a pretty cool honest answer.
    - jasonfried 18y ago
      No one gave us a popular blog, we built it over 10 years. No one gives you anything, you have to spend the time to make it happen. This is another thing we talk about every time we have the chance: All of this takes time. You have to be in it for the long haul.
      - dabeeeenster 18y ago
        That is understandable, but you are still not answering the point. A large part of the success of companies like 37s and fogbugz is due to their online following, which is based on a blog and in your case the Rails framework. Companies that write a blog with 5 subscribers are simply not playing in the same league. Yes, of course, you have to start with 5, and I'm sure you did at some point, but to suggest that you can apply X ideas to achieve Y without discussing these enormous 'external' conditions that are directly attributable to this achievement is not telling the whole story.
      - davidw 18y ago
        > we built it over 10 years. Which is longer than you've worked on any of your software, if I'm not mistaken. That would, in some ways, make it the biggest barrier to entry. The software is good, but certainly not impossible for good people to replicate in a relatively brief time, so what really seems to differentiate you is the blog/rails/following - that is something that cannot easily be replicated.
  - ryanwaggoner 18y ago
    I agree that you guys say that a lot, but I was specifically talking about your attitude, which often strikes me as condescending towards those who do not share your views, regardless of your pronounced respect for differing approaches. In all fairness, some of this may be a by-product of the very close association between 37signals and Rails; for all its strengths, I feel the Rails community often exhibits some of the same characteristics.
- GHFigs 18y ago
  You're wrong. You've noticed the omission of weasel words, and misinterpreted that as a disagreeable attitude. That is generally the drawback of writing with conviction, but ultimately the benefits to both the writer and the reader make it worthwhile. The alternative is to use smileys. :-( e.g. saying "My problem with 37signals is..." instead of "I think many people's problem with 37signals is..." The former gives you possession over your subject, the latter is both redundant in saying "I think" (you wrote it, of course it's what you think!) and uses "many people" as a crutch that requires the ability to read minds to verify. It isn't that it's an false thing to say, it's just empty of meaning, and should be omitted.

ryanwaggoner 18y ago

Yeah, but I think many people's problem with 37signals is that their attitude is that one-size-fits-all and that because something worked for them, that's the only correct way of doing it.

jasonfried 18y ago
If there's one thing we've said more than any other thing it's that our ideas are not one size-fit-all. There are a lot of different ways to do things. We only have the answers that work for us. We don't pretend to have your answers. That said, we don't preempt everything we say with "it depends." Reasonable people understand that everything depends. We simply share our way based on our experience. Take whatever value you find and leave the rest behind. From the front pages of our book: http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_and_other_preemptive_strikes.php http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch01_Caveats_disclaimers_an...
- axod 18y ago
  I think it'd be really neat to have on that disclaimer page: "We acknowledge a large part of our own success is due to our popular blog. Unless you have a popular blog, some of the advice may not work for you" From "Founders at work", Joel Spolsky when asked for advice for startups: "I would recommend that you create a weblog and have millions of readers every month from around the world that read it. That's not really necessarily followable." I thought that was a pretty cool honest answer.
  - jasonfried 18y ago
    No one gave us a popular blog, we built it over 10 years. No one gives you anything, you have to spend the time to make it happen. This is another thing we talk about every time we have the chance: All of this takes time. You have to be in it for the long haul.
    - dabeeeenster 18y ago
      That is understandable, but you are still not answering the point. A large part of the success of companies like 37s and fogbugz is due to their online following, which is based on a blog and in your case the Rails framework. Companies that write a blog with 5 subscribers are simply not playing in the same league. Yes, of course, you have to start with 5, and I'm sure you did at some point, but to suggest that you can apply X ideas to achieve Y without discussing these enormous 'external' conditions that are directly attributable to this achievement is not telling the whole story.
    - davidw 18y ago
      > we built it over 10 years. Which is longer than you've worked on any of your software, if I'm not mistaken. That would, in some ways, make it the biggest barrier to entry. The software is good, but certainly not impossible for good people to replicate in a relatively brief time, so what really seems to differentiate you is the blog/rails/following - that is something that cannot easily be replicated.
- ryanwaggoner 18y ago
  I agree that you guys say that a lot, but I was specifically talking about your attitude, which often strikes me as condescending towards those who do not share your views, regardless of your pronounced respect for differing approaches. In all fairness, some of this may be a by-product of the very close association between 37signals and Rails; for all its strengths, I feel the Rails community often exhibits some of the same characteristics.
GHFigs 18y ago
You're wrong. You've noticed the omission of weasel words, and misinterpreted that as a disagreeable attitude. That is generally the drawback of writing with conviction, but ultimately the benefits to both the writer and the reader make it worthwhile. The alternative is to use smileys. :-( e.g. saying "My problem with 37signals is..." instead of "I think many people's problem with 37signals is..." The former gives you possession over your subject, the latter is both redundant in saying "I think" (you wrote it, of course it's what you think!) and uses "many people" as a crutch that requires the ability to read minds to verify. It isn't that it's an false thing to say, it's just empty of meaning, and should be omitted.