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>If you take any high quality AI content and ask their creator what their workflow is, you'll quickly discover that the complexity and nuance required to actual

>If you take any high quality AI content and ask their creator what their workflow is, you'll quickly discover that the complexity and nuance required to actually create something high-quality and something that actually "fulfills your vision" is incredibly complex This comes off as so tone deaf seeing your AI artwork is only possible due to the millions of hours spent by real people who created the art used to train these models. Maybe it's easier to understand why people don't respect AI "artists" with this in mind.

vessenes 1y ago
I also feel unhappy when painters get formal art training which summarizes millions of human hours of work. Even worse they then go to Florence and waste their time stealing art by painting..exact copies of other people’s paintings! I feel a real artist would make their own tools: brushes, paint, canvas, and above all be truly creative by not unfairly using anything that’s gone before. If they did they aren’t creative; they’re a thief.
- GenshoTikamura 1y ago
  You said you're an AI artist, but you've just dismissed all artists upon whose work you build your own art as thieves, so either you've admitted yourself a thief as well or you got some serious trouble with logic
  - vessenes 1y ago
    Sorry, I think you missed the sarcasm in my original post. I am saying that gatekeeping what art is, and what theft is, typically ignores exactly how art is made, how artists are trained, and the history of tools impacting creative endeavors -- basically close to what you say here: there are logical and historical errors that invalidate these complaints in my mind. p.s. def not an artist.
- hooverd 1y ago
  Ok, there is fundamentally a difference in creation versus consumption here though.
- jplusequalt 1y ago
  Spending thousands of hours honing a craft and along the way learning from those who came before you, is not the same as using these models. You're being overly reductive to try and force a similarity, but in the process you just come off as disingenuous.
  - vessenes 1y ago
    No. You're gatekeeping what "craft" is. Is craft making your own chisels for woodworking? Perhaps there are craftsman who buy chisels made by others. Okay. Then is craft only making furniture with dovetail joints by hand? Well, I guess people use planers. So, no it's not just hand made wood working that's craft. Someone uses a CnC machine with a design they made to cut wood, then hand sands and polishes. Is that craft? What if you learned it took them three or four times as many hours to learn the CnC machine and design as it did to hand plane a cedar log? To be clear, I don't identify as an artist at all, but I do have a stake in this conversation -- which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them. The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by people with open minds who are soaking up everything they can about whatever tools are available. It's a sort of brain rot to gatekeep technology advances out of creativity.
    - jplusequalt 1y ago
      >which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them People have had access to tools for creating for generations. In the modern era you can buy a pencil and a sketch pad for dollars. You can buy an instrument used for as little as a hundred dollars. Hell, schools teach art and music for free. >The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by people with open minds who are soaking up everything they can about whatever tools are available. Not all technology presents a net good for society. These technologies only exist on top the mountain of stolen artwork created by millions of artists, and this tech will continue to hamper the livelihoods of artists as long these companies are pushing them. >It's a sort of brain rot to gatekeep technology advances out of creativity. JFC. Don't talk to me about brain rot. The "art" and "creativity" you speak about here is just more finely grained consumption. Now instead of scrolling through a feed, you can ask Google to present your dopamine addicted brain exactly what you want to see in that moment. In contrast, focusing on improving a craft acts as a sort of antidote to "brain rot" because you're engaging in multiple important things at once: - critical thinking - delayed gratification - habit formation - emotional exploration - and more

vessenes 1y ago

I also feel unhappy when painters get formal art training which summarizes millions of human hours of work. Even worse they then go to Florence and waste their time stealing art by painting..exact copies of other people’s paintings! I feel a real artist would make their own tools: brushes, paint, canvas, and above all be truly creative by not unfairly using anything that’s gone before. If they did they aren’t creative; they’re a thief.

GenshoTikamura 1y ago
You said you're an AI artist, but you've just dismissed all artists upon whose work you build your own art as thieves, so either you've admitted yourself a thief as well or you got some serious trouble with logic
- vessenes 1y ago
  Sorry, I think you missed the sarcasm in my original post. I am saying that gatekeeping what art is, and what theft is, typically ignores exactly how art is made, how artists are trained, and the history of tools impacting creative endeavors -- basically close to what you say here: there are logical and historical errors that invalidate these complaints in my mind. p.s. def not an artist.
hooverd 1y ago
Ok, there is fundamentally a difference in creation versus consumption here though.
jplusequalt 1y ago
Spending thousands of hours honing a craft and along the way learning from those who came before you, is not the same as using these models. You're being overly reductive to try and force a similarity, but in the process you just come off as disingenuous.
- vessenes 1y ago
  No. You're gatekeeping what "craft" is. Is craft making your own chisels for woodworking? Perhaps there are craftsman who buy chisels made by others. Okay. Then is craft only making furniture with dovetail joints by hand? Well, I guess people use planers. So, no it's not just hand made wood working that's craft. Someone uses a CnC machine with a design they made to cut wood, then hand sands and polishes. Is that craft? What if you learned it took them three or four times as many hours to learn the CnC machine and design as it did to hand plane a cedar log? To be clear, I don't identify as an artist at all, but I do have a stake in this conversation -- which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them. The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by people with open minds who are soaking up everything they can about whatever tools are available. It's a sort of brain rot to gatekeep technology advances out of creativity.
  - jplusequalt 1y ago
    >which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them People have had access to tools for creating for generations. In the modern era you can buy a pencil and a sketch pad for dollars. You can buy an instrument used for as little as a hundred dollars. Hell, schools teach art and music for free. >The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by people with open minds who are soaking up everything they can about whatever tools are available. Not all technology presents a net good for society. These technologies only exist on top the mountain of stolen artwork created by millions of artists, and this tech will continue to hamper the livelihoods of artists as long these companies are pushing them. >It's a sort of brain rot to gatekeep technology advances out of creativity. JFC. Don't talk to me about brain rot. The "art" and "creativity" you speak about here is just more finely grained consumption. Now instead of scrolling through a feed, you can ask Google to present your dopamine addicted brain exactly what you want to see in that moment. In contrast, focusing on improving a craft acts as a sort of antidote to "brain rot" because you're engaging in multiple important things at once: - critical thinking - delayed gratification - habit formation - emotional exploration - and more