6 ms·

Indeed true - US is 4% of the global population but 25% of the global consumption, if not more. You can see this via the eyeball test - everything is bigger: ca

Indeed true - US is 4% of the global population but 25% of the global consumption, if not more. You can see this via the eyeball test - everything is bigger: cars, houses, even the people. US invented 'overproduction' to smear Chinese manufacturing, but did not consider the other side of the coin, which is US 'overconsumption'. Two to tango etc

EasyMark 1y ago
I see this tossed around but no one ever seems to point out that EU has similar numbers, which are about half, but still extremely higher than global average; and much more so in the richer countries of the EU (per capita of course)
- alephnerd 1y ago
  The EU complains about China Shock equally as much as the US [0][1][2][3][4][5][6] Just becuase Trump burnt bridges with the EU doesn't mean that EU member states will gladly allow job losses across Europe's industrial heartland to a country that is supplying a direct competitor (Russia) that has conducted grey zone warfare within the EU The EU and it's member states are all working on building domestic capacity, and pushing Chinese manufacturers to manufacture WITHIN the EU [7][8], and further diversifying by making FTAs with ASEAN [9][10], Japan [11], SK [12], India [13], etc. In essence, nothing has materially changed in European policy with regards to China compared to under the Biden administration. Chinese overproduction is a global issue now, and most major economies and blocs have enacted barriers and will continue to do so unless China removes it's barriers to imports, subsidizes, and technology transfers. [0] - https://ecfr.eu/publication/electric-shock-the-chinese-threat-to-europes-industrial-heartland/?amp https://ecfr.eu/publication/electric-shock-the-chinese-threa... [1] - https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2025/how-german-industry-can-survive-second-china-shock https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2025/ho... [2] - https://www.gmfus.org/news/watching-china-europe-may-2025 https://www.gmfus.org/news/watching-china-europe-may-2025 [3] - https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/07/eus-unsustainable-china-strategy/european-issues-china https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/07/eus-unsustainable-china... [4] - https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog240903~57f1b63192.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog... [5] - https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13259/hit-by-the-silk-road-how-wage-coordination-in-europe-mitigates-the-china-shock https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13259/hit-by-the-silk-ro... [6] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-15/eu-economy-chief-urges-china-self-restraint-on-diverting-goods?embedded-checkout=true https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-15/eu-econom... [7] - https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/09/19/near-shoring-is-turning-eastern-europe-into-the-new-china https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/09/19/near-shoring-is-... [8] - https://www.bruegel.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/The%20EU%E2%80%99s%20concept%20of%20de-risking%20hovers%20around%20economic%20diversification%20rather%20than%20national%20security.pdf https://www.bruegel.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/The%20EU... [9] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/sweden-propose-eu-membership-pacific-rim-free-trade-group-cptpp-2025-05-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/sweden-propose-eu-member... [10] - https://www.ft.com/content/bee31826-012d-4bb1-a6eb-d6cc0d4ef39f https://www.ft.com/content/bee31826-012d-4bb1-a6eb-d6cc0d4ef... [11] - https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/japan/eu-japan-agreement_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou... [12] - https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-south-korea-free-trade-agreement https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-s... [13] - https://apnews.com/article/india-eu-modi-ursula-von-der-leyen-309ab4795ad0206b66fe20bef5ca9a92 https://apnews.com/article/india-eu-modi-ursula-von-der-leye...
  - coliveira 1y ago
    What about the EU stopping its own subsidies first, before asking this from other countries?
    - alephnerd 1y ago
      Why not China. China spends 1.73% of it's GDP on subsidizes compared to 0.4-0.6% for France and Germany [0]. At least Germany and France open factories across the EU. Chinese manufacturers did not until the EU began tariffs actions. Furthermore, Chinese dumping in solar destroyed Germany's original lead in PV manufacturing, and China continues to force foreign manufacturers like VW to partner with Chinese SOEs. European nations may as well demand the same as well then. And Chinese dumping is something all nations are fighting - especially other developing countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Brazil, Mexico, etc. [0] - https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/220523_DiPippo_Red_Ink.pdf?VersionId=LH8ILLKWz4o.bjrwNS7csuX_C04FyEre https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publi...
      - fakedang 1y ago
        Or maybe the EU should subsidize more instead of policing around? The EU reminds me of the teacher's pet going around the playground, telling all the other children that they should follow the rules. But of course, the pet doesn't have a big stick, so nobody really bothers listening to him/her.
        alephnerd 1y ago
        I don't disagree with the EU's laggardness around changing economic tides, but if just about every major economic bloc and country is initiating trade barriers against China to protect their domestic industries, at some point the common denominator is China. And as I mentioned elsewhere, much of this overproduction would go away were Chinese consumers able to dip into their savings if China's social safety net was expanded and the CCP's Reaganesque opposition to "Welfarism" was toned down.
- TacticalCoder 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - wqaatwt 1y ago
    > Zeiss Since when is Zeiss Swiss and not German? Also if ASML is partially US owned so are all major US tech companies partially “EU owned” in a similar way.
    - mordae 1y ago
      Bayer owns Monsanto for instance.
  - dns_snek 1y ago
    Why stick around if you have this amount of pent-up hatred and disgust for the EU, the people who live here, and everything they believe in at a fundamental ideological level? If you believe the grass is so much greener on the other side then why not just go for it? Judging by your nickname I'm assuming that you have the means to move just about anywhere if you really wanted to, but I think you'll be sorely disappointed no matter where you end up going.
  - formerly_proven 1y ago
    > I'm not that concern for the US: lifestyle may go down a bit, but the US is a country of do'ers. Yeah, drug do'ers.
  - jajko 1y ago
    Whats stopping you? You sound like jaded old fool who made some serious irreversible mistakes in their lives, and now just overflowing with regret and hate. EU may be foolish in some aspects, I agree there, but life quality as in actual daily levels of stress, happiness, quality of life, quality and costs of basic services that take care of weak (which one day you will inevitably become too) is stellar and parsecs better what people in same position in life can rely on ie in US. Or crime level. Or free decent education. But we have freedom, you don't like a place then trivially move, if your skills are worth its salt. You can spend rest of your life in society that has different priorities and thrive there, if you can.
grayfaced 1y ago
Wouldn't it be more apt to compare consumption vs production. It looks like US is about 26% of global GDP from a quick google. But I'm also suspect of comparing GDP's across nations that have very different methodologies. Also services are counted there, so it's likely we're exporting services in exchange for manufactured products.
- hunglee2 1y ago
  US GDP is grossly inflated by 'services' many of which are non-productive, even deleterious to society. Healthcare is probably the best example of this, I believe it is 10-15% of US economy, yet health outcomes for the people can be extraordinary poor, seeing as majority of bankruptcies in the country are as a result of healthcare costs incurred. We need to find a way to separate 'good' vs 'bad' GDP because the measure is way too crude
  - _t9ow 1y ago
    Seems like U.S. healthcare spending is 17.5%-19.5% of its GDP: "Overall, health spending was 17.6% of GDP in 2023, similar to pre-pandemic shares (17.5% in 2019) after an uptick in 2020 (19.5%) and 2021 (18.3%)." (https://www.ama-assn.org/about/ama-research/trends-health-care-spending https://www.ama-assn.org/about/ama-research/trends-health-ca...)

EasyMark 1y ago

I see this tossed around but no one ever seems to point out that EU has similar numbers, which are about half, but still extremely higher than global average; and much more so in the richer countries of the EU (per capita of course)

alephnerd 1y ago
The EU complains about China Shock equally as much as the US [0][1][2][3][4][5][6] Just becuase Trump burnt bridges with the EU doesn't mean that EU member states will gladly allow job losses across Europe's industrial heartland to a country that is supplying a direct competitor (Russia) that has conducted grey zone warfare within the EU The EU and it's member states are all working on building domestic capacity, and pushing Chinese manufacturers to manufacture WITHIN the EU [7][8], and further diversifying by making FTAs with ASEAN [9][10], Japan [11], SK [12], India [13], etc. In essence, nothing has materially changed in European policy with regards to China compared to under the Biden administration. Chinese overproduction is a global issue now, and most major economies and blocs have enacted barriers and will continue to do so unless China removes it's barriers to imports, subsidizes, and technology transfers. [0] - https://ecfr.eu/publication/electric-shock-the-chinese-threat-to-europes-industrial-heartland/?amp https://ecfr.eu/publication/electric-shock-the-chinese-threa... [1] - https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2025/how-german-industry-can-survive-second-china-shock https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2025/ho... [2] - https://www.gmfus.org/news/watching-china-europe-may-2025 https://www.gmfus.org/news/watching-china-europe-may-2025 [3] - https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/07/eus-unsustainable-china-strategy/european-issues-china https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/07/eus-unsustainable-china... [4] - https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog240903~57f1b63192.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog... [5] - https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13259/hit-by-the-silk-road-how-wage-coordination-in-europe-mitigates-the-china-shock https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13259/hit-by-the-silk-ro... [6] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-15/eu-economy-chief-urges-china-self-restraint-on-diverting-goods?embedded-checkout=true https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-15/eu-econom... [7] - https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/09/19/near-shoring-is-turning-eastern-europe-into-the-new-china https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/09/19/near-shoring-is-... [8] - https://www.bruegel.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/The%20EU%E2%80%99s%20concept%20of%20de-risking%20hovers%20around%20economic%20diversification%20rather%20than%20national%20security.pdf https://www.bruegel.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/The%20EU... [9] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/sweden-propose-eu-membership-pacific-rim-free-trade-group-cptpp-2025-05-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/sweden-propose-eu-member... [10] - https://www.ft.com/content/bee31826-012d-4bb1-a6eb-d6cc0d4ef39f https://www.ft.com/content/bee31826-012d-4bb1-a6eb-d6cc0d4ef... [11] - https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-country-and-region/countries-and-regions/japan/eu-japan-agreement_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/eu-trade-relationships-cou... [12] - https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-south-korea-free-trade-agreement https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/eu-s... [13] - https://apnews.com/article/india-eu-modi-ursula-von-der-leyen-309ab4795ad0206b66fe20bef5ca9a92 https://apnews.com/article/india-eu-modi-ursula-von-der-leye...
- coliveira 1y ago
  What about the EU stopping its own subsidies first, before asking this from other countries?
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    Why not China. China spends 1.73% of it's GDP on subsidizes compared to 0.4-0.6% for France and Germany [0]. At least Germany and France open factories across the EU. Chinese manufacturers did not until the EU began tariffs actions. Furthermore, Chinese dumping in solar destroyed Germany's original lead in PV manufacturing, and China continues to force foreign manufacturers like VW to partner with Chinese SOEs. European nations may as well demand the same as well then. And Chinese dumping is something all nations are fighting - especially other developing countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Brazil, Mexico, etc. [0] - https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/220523_DiPippo_Red_Ink.pdf?VersionId=LH8ILLKWz4o.bjrwNS7csuX_C04FyEre https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publi...
    - fakedang 1y ago
      Or maybe the EU should subsidize more instead of policing around? The EU reminds me of the teacher's pet going around the playground, telling all the other children that they should follow the rules. But of course, the pet doesn't have a big stick, so nobody really bothers listening to him/her.
      - alephnerd 1y ago
        I don't disagree with the EU's laggardness around changing economic tides, but if just about every major economic bloc and country is initiating trade barriers against China to protect their domestic industries, at some point the common denominator is China. And as I mentioned elsewhere, much of this overproduction would go away were Chinese consumers able to dip into their savings if China's social safety net was expanded and the CCP's Reaganesque opposition to "Welfarism" was toned down.
TacticalCoder 1y ago
[flagged]
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  > Zeiss Since when is Zeiss Swiss and not German? Also if ASML is partially US owned so are all major US tech companies partially “EU owned” in a similar way.
  - mordae 1y ago
    Bayer owns Monsanto for instance.
- dns_snek 1y ago
  Why stick around if you have this amount of pent-up hatred and disgust for the EU, the people who live here, and everything they believe in at a fundamental ideological level? If you believe the grass is so much greener on the other side then why not just go for it? Judging by your nickname I'm assuming that you have the means to move just about anywhere if you really wanted to, but I think you'll be sorely disappointed no matter where you end up going.
- formerly_proven 1y ago
  > I'm not that concern for the US: lifestyle may go down a bit, but the US is a country of do'ers. Yeah, drug do'ers.
- jajko 1y ago
  Whats stopping you? You sound like jaded old fool who made some serious irreversible mistakes in their lives, and now just overflowing with regret and hate. EU may be foolish in some aspects, I agree there, but life quality as in actual daily levels of stress, happiness, quality of life, quality and costs of basic services that take care of weak (which one day you will inevitably become too) is stellar and parsecs better what people in same position in life can rely on ie in US. Or crime level. Or free decent education. But we have freedom, you don't like a place then trivially move, if your skills are worth its salt. You can spend rest of your life in society that has different priorities and thrive there, if you can.

grayfaced 1y ago

Wouldn't it be more apt to compare consumption vs production. It looks like US is about 26% of global GDP from a quick google. But I'm also suspect of comparing GDP's across nations that have very different methodologies. Also services are counted there, so it's likely we're exporting services in exchange for manufactured products.

hunglee2 1y ago
US GDP is grossly inflated by 'services' many of which are non-productive, even deleterious to society. Healthcare is probably the best example of this, I believe it is 10-15% of US economy, yet health outcomes for the people can be extraordinary poor, seeing as majority of bankruptcies in the country are as a result of healthcare costs incurred. We need to find a way to separate 'good' vs 'bad' GDP because the measure is way too crude
- _t9ow 1y ago
  Seems like U.S. healthcare spending is 17.5%-19.5% of its GDP: "Overall, health spending was 17.6% of GDP in 2023, similar to pre-pandemic shares (17.5% in 2019) after an uptick in 2020 (19.5%) and 2021 (18.3%)." (https://www.ama-assn.org/about/ama-research/trends-health-care-spending https://www.ama-assn.org/about/ama-research/trends-health-ca...)