4 ms·

What happened to American manufacturing is not unusual

18 points by nabla9 1y ago

gtirloni 1y ago
> Since tertiarization appears to be an unavoidable part of an economic progress, attempting to turn back the clock with trade restrictions is unlikely to produce the desired results. Instead, economists recommend public investment in declining communities I don't think it gets any more common-sense-er than this. You'd think the "it's just common sense" party would understand it.
- senda 1y ago
  public investment to what end? that's what's not common sense at all. what form is the public investment? are we trying to create new industries? put everyone on social welfare?
  - gtirloni 1y ago
    Yes.
  - brazzy 1y ago
    Read the rest of the paragraph. There's a link and a bullet list.
  - bognition 1y ago
    To what end? To establish a healthy society where people are free to explore and take risks. It’s not that complicated. Remove the risk of failure by giving people money for food, a place to live, an education, and protect their health. There is a reason that many successful founders came from money. That kind acted as a safety net that allowed them to bet big. Not everyone with money goes on to establish a big business but the rate of success is far higher for those with money.
- tstrimple 1y ago
  These communities explicitly don't want public investment. They want a magic wand to be waved so they can continue to do the same jobs in the same places for the same income level their daddies did. There is no such thing as common sense. It's far too uncommon for us to put any sort of faith in.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
It is unfortunate though. There is a percentage of the population that have no interest in the "service economy". They need to work with their hands. There are of course the trades, construction. Perhaps not enough though. Germany tried some "protectionist" policies I seem to recall reading about — to protect some segment of manufacturing (automobile?). I am not sure how that panned out.
- jsbg 1y ago
  if you want other people to give you money you have to offer something they want, not something that interests you
  - franktankbank 1y ago
    But don't ever worry about the big yellow elephant in the room with bold black letters M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y and A-D-V-E-R-S-A-R-Y
  - accidc 1y ago
    As long as we understand that the ‘want’ may originate beyond what individuals desire. e.g. the state may want agricultural production to be in-house for food security or have sufficient industrial capacity for national security So these measures (public/investments) would be instituted to fulfill these ‘wants’
  - emorning3 1y ago
    Not true. I give money to the government against my will. Same for the rent, the utility company, the water company etc. Most people give what other people can force them to pay to survive.
  - palmotea 1y ago
    >> It is unfortunate though. There is a percentage of the population that have no interest in the "service economy". They need to work with their hands. > if you want other people to give you money you have to offer something they want, not something that interests you In the small scale. But if you're thinking about society, you damn well better be thinking about having a big enough place for the people who "need to work with their hands," that's adequately remunerated.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
It's started in China too. Total employment in Chinese manufacturing has been roughly flat over the last 10 years, yet output has increased massively. The future of Chinese manufacturing is "dark factories", which have no employees on the floor.
suraci 1y ago
[flagged]

18 points by nabla9 1y ago

> Since tertiarization appears to be an unavoidable part of an economic progress, attempting to turn back the clock with trade restrictions is unlikely to produce the desired results. Instead, economists recommend public investment in declining communities I don't think it gets any more common-sense-er than this. You'd think the "it's just common sense" party would understand it.

senda 1y ago
public investment to what end? that's what's not common sense at all. what form is the public investment? are we trying to create new industries? put everyone on social welfare?
- gtirloni 1y ago
  Yes.
- brazzy 1y ago
  Read the rest of the paragraph. There's a link and a bullet list.
- bognition 1y ago
  To what end? To establish a healthy society where people are free to explore and take risks. It’s not that complicated. Remove the risk of failure by giving people money for food, a place to live, an education, and protect their health. There is a reason that many successful founders came from money. That kind acted as a safety net that allowed them to bet big. Not everyone with money goes on to establish a big business but the rate of success is far higher for those with money.
tstrimple 1y ago
These communities explicitly don't want public investment. They want a magic wand to be waved so they can continue to do the same jobs in the same places for the same income level their daddies did. There is no such thing as common sense. It's far too uncommon for us to put any sort of faith in.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

It is unfortunate though. There is a percentage of the population that have no interest in the "service economy". They need to work with their hands. There are of course the trades, construction. Perhaps not enough though. Germany tried some "protectionist" policies I seem to recall reading about — to protect some segment of manufacturing (automobile?). I am not sure how that panned out.

jsbg 1y ago
if you want other people to give you money you have to offer something they want, not something that interests you
- franktankbank 1y ago
  But don't ever worry about the big yellow elephant in the room with bold black letters M-O-N-O-P-O-L-Y and A-D-V-E-R-S-A-R-Y
- accidc 1y ago
  As long as we understand that the ‘want’ may originate beyond what individuals desire. e.g. the state may want agricultural production to be in-house for food security or have sufficient industrial capacity for national security So these measures (public/investments) would be instituted to fulfill these ‘wants’
- emorning3 1y ago
  Not true. I give money to the government against my will. Same for the rent, the utility company, the water company etc. Most people give what other people can force them to pay to survive.
- palmotea 1y ago
  >> It is unfortunate though. There is a percentage of the population that have no interest in the "service economy". They need to work with their hands. > if you want other people to give you money you have to offer something they want, not something that interests you In the small scale. But if you're thinking about society, you damn well better be thinking about having a big enough place for the people who "need to work with their hands," that's adequately remunerated.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

It's started in China too. Total employment in Chinese manufacturing has been roughly flat over the last 10 years, yet output has increased massively. The future of Chinese manufacturing is "dark factories", which have no employees on the floor.

suraci 1y ago

[flagged]