4 ms·

So .. where are the speech rules for visa holders written down? The important thing in rule of law is that it should be possible to comply. If visa holders wer

by pjc50 1y ago

So .. where are the speech rules for visa holders written down? The important thing in rule of law is that it should be possible to comply. If visa holders were told that not engaging in political speech or holding certain views in public was a condition of their visa, then it's somewhat defensible. What are the speech laws that apply here? Or are you arguing that visas are pure whimsy? That they're awarded based on whether elected officials like you or not?

noqc 1y ago
You're not being imprisoned, executed, or fined. You're being sent home.
- ben_w 1y ago
  Some of them very much are being imprisoned, and deportations are not all to the country of origin. Also, if the US government is doing deportations *for speech*, that's definitely 100% a free speech issue.
- pjc50 1y ago
  Deportation is if nothing else a significant financial loss to people. And forcible deportation comes with a period of imprisonment. Let's not forget that people being sent to El Salvador who are not from there are not being deported, they're very definitely being imprisoned.
  - noqc 1y ago
    >forcible deportation comes with a period of imprisonment. You are at any point free to get on a plane home. >Let's not forget that people being sent to El Salvador Sure, but they aren't being rendered to El Salvador for their speech, which is what this particular conversation is about.
- horsawlarway 1y ago
  > You're not being imprisoned, executed, or fined. You're being sent home. Why do you think this matters? Further, why do you think this isn't a punishment (often of greater impact than a fine? Nothing like paying for 3/4 of a top tier ivy diploma only to be sent home a few semesters before graduating - nifty little 100k fine right there...) These are clear punishments applied by the admin towards a group of people making specific speech they don't like. You are ok with that. Ipso facto - you are not pro free speech. I... don't really know why you're bothering to argue that you are.

by pjc50 1y ago

noqc 1y ago

You're not being imprisoned, executed, or fined. You're being sent home.

ben_w 1y ago
Some of them very much are being imprisoned, and deportations are not all to the country of origin. Also, if the US government is doing deportations *for speech*, that's definitely 100% a free speech issue.
pjc50 1y ago
Deportation is if nothing else a significant financial loss to people. And forcible deportation comes with a period of imprisonment. Let's not forget that people being sent to El Salvador who are not from there are not being deported, they're very definitely being imprisoned.
- noqc 1y ago
  >forcible deportation comes with a period of imprisonment. You are at any point free to get on a plane home. >Let's not forget that people being sent to El Salvador Sure, but they aren't being rendered to El Salvador for their speech, which is what this particular conversation is about.
horsawlarway 1y ago
> You're not being imprisoned, executed, or fined. You're being sent home. Why do you think this matters? Further, why do you think this isn't a punishment (often of greater impact than a fine? Nothing like paying for 3/4 of a top tier ivy diploma only to be sent home a few semesters before graduating - nifty little 100k fine right there...) These are clear punishments applied by the admin towards a group of people making specific speech they don't like. You are ok with that. Ipso facto - you are not pro free speech. I... don't really know why you're bothering to argue that you are.