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The problem I see with this question is that people currently claiming the conservative mantle in the US don't demonstrate conservative values. How conservativ

The problem I see with this question is that people currently claiming the conservative mantle in the US don't demonstrate conservative values. How conservative was DOGE's effort to save money. The story was conservative but the actions were radical. I wouldn't equate conservatism with the flat earth crowd. I would equate the current majority closer to flat earthers than Columbus.

JCattheATM 1y ago
Pretty sure DOGE actually ended up costing the government more money than it saved. The entire venture was a disaster to highlight a meme. It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.
wredcoll 1y ago
Is there a "conservative value" other than preserving the status quo and supporting hierarchies? This is snark but also genuine, so far in my life I've seen a lot of different things called conservative...
- detourdog 1y ago
  That is part of the problem your definition is not that snarky. I don't think supporting hierarchies is needed in the definition. I would also say that honoring the status quo is a finer more nuanced definition. The status quo is not that bad. Understanding one's actions might affect the status quo I think is a central conservative value.
  - JCattheATM 1y ago
    The status quo sucks for a lot of people, and as far as I'm concerned conservatism's main defining goal is standing in the way of progress to make things better for everyone. Nothing else.
    - detourdog 1y ago
      From my perspective the quote that we stand on the shoulders of giants is the positive side of conservatism. The negative side of conservatism may block some positive effects. I'm not sure why you feel the notion of conservatism has a hierarchy of goals. I see it as a simple idea that can be applied to almost any effort. Like any tool it can be applied in detrimental ways. I believe absolute opinions on conservatism probably miss a lot of nuance. Finally I think that arguments that conservatism is dangerous are mostly based on the fact that many people are making bad decisions and they are paying lip service to conservatism.
      - JCattheATM 1y ago
        What do you mean stand on the shoulders of giants? I'll tell you what...you stand on the shoulders of people who literally instigated and fought for change, and certainly didn't fight or work to keep a status quo that still had so many problems. > I'm not sure why you feel the notion of conservatism has a hierarchy of goals. Where did you get that from? > Finally I think that arguments that conservatism is dangerous are mostly based on the fact Like it or lump it, in the US at least, it is linked to people that do have dangerous attitudes, not caring about climate change, arguing against socialized health care or welfare benefits, trying to take away rights from minorities...just a constant flood of immoral, uneducated hateful stuff that only ever hurts.
        detourdog 1y ago
        That the continuity that the human race has maintained is based on conservative values. I think we disagree about some subtlety of how society builds on its efforts. The hierarchy quote is actually about wredcoll comment. I'm obviously a conservative person. That conservatism doesn't accept different variations for the same word. I don;'t accept the conservative has a special definition in the US. All of the shmabolic things you mention as conservative failures are what I'm complaining about it. I don't see them as conservative values because they cost us all more money and waste resources. The examples you provide I don't accept as conservative. This is maybe why we disagree.

JCattheATM 1y ago

Pretty sure DOGE actually ended up costing the government more money than it saved. The entire venture was a disaster to highlight a meme. It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

wredcoll 1y ago

Is there a "conservative value" other than preserving the status quo and supporting hierarchies? This is snark but also genuine, so far in my life I've seen a lot of different things called conservative...

detourdog 1y ago
That is part of the problem your definition is not that snarky. I don't think supporting hierarchies is needed in the definition. I would also say that honoring the status quo is a finer more nuanced definition. The status quo is not that bad. Understanding one's actions might affect the status quo I think is a central conservative value.
- JCattheATM 1y ago
  The status quo sucks for a lot of people, and as far as I'm concerned conservatism's main defining goal is standing in the way of progress to make things better for everyone. Nothing else.
  - detourdog 1y ago
    From my perspective the quote that we stand on the shoulders of giants is the positive side of conservatism. The negative side of conservatism may block some positive effects. I'm not sure why you feel the notion of conservatism has a hierarchy of goals. I see it as a simple idea that can be applied to almost any effort. Like any tool it can be applied in detrimental ways. I believe absolute opinions on conservatism probably miss a lot of nuance. Finally I think that arguments that conservatism is dangerous are mostly based on the fact that many people are making bad decisions and they are paying lip service to conservatism.
    - JCattheATM 1y ago
      What do you mean stand on the shoulders of giants? I'll tell you what...you stand on the shoulders of people who literally instigated and fought for change, and certainly didn't fight or work to keep a status quo that still had so many problems. > I'm not sure why you feel the notion of conservatism has a hierarchy of goals. Where did you get that from? > Finally I think that arguments that conservatism is dangerous are mostly based on the fact Like it or lump it, in the US at least, it is linked to people that do have dangerous attitudes, not caring about climate change, arguing against socialized health care or welfare benefits, trying to take away rights from minorities...just a constant flood of immoral, uneducated hateful stuff that only ever hurts.
      - detourdog 1y ago
        That the continuity that the human race has maintained is based on conservative values. I think we disagree about some subtlety of how society builds on its efforts. The hierarchy quote is actually about wredcoll comment. I'm obviously a conservative person. That conservatism doesn't accept different variations for the same word. I don;'t accept the conservative has a special definition in the US. All of the shmabolic things you mention as conservative failures are what I'm complaining about it. I don't see them as conservative values because they cost us all more money and waste resources. The examples you provide I don't accept as conservative. This is maybe why we disagree.