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> The actual cornerstone of conservatism is an instinctual preference for stability, order, and the familiar. ... which inevitably breaks down when fundamental

> The actual cornerstone of conservatism is an instinctual preference for stability, order, and the familiar. ... which inevitably breaks down when fundamental assumptions become disproven. And that's the point. Many "moderate" Conservatives still believe in the "trickle down" economy theory or that government debt is inherently bad and a government's budget needs to be balanced. Both have been proven time and time again to be not just wrong, but outright disastrous in their consequences, and yet Germany voted that ideology into chancellorship, not to mention what is currently going on in the US.

WalterBright 1y ago
> government debt is inherently bad and a government's budget needs to be balanced We're going to find out if that is true or not.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  For heavens sake WE ALREADY HAVE FOUND THAT OUT. Look at Germany: 16 years of austerity policy have left our infrastructure so thoroughly compromised it literally falls apart - we were damn lucky that that bridge collapse in Dresden end of last year didn't kill anyone! And even in the US you see it with every presidential change: Democrat governments cut services and expenditures because the last Republican cut taxes for the wealthy, the frustration leads to people vote for Republicans who introduce yet another round of billionaire tax cuts and blow up the government debt by untold billions of dollars, rinse and repeat.
detourdog 1y ago
I can't even tell what the current ideology of the US is. The current thought seems to be that debt doesn't matter but social programs are waste. So we must run up deficits while reducing spending. The US seems to be combining the worst of both ideologies. I can't imagine what happens next.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  Not much room to cut taxes for the rich without increasing the deficit which they've said must go down, so their great solution is to cut welfare programs to give a tax cut for the rich.
  - detourdog 1y ago
    That is not my confusion. My confusion is that they are labeled conservative.
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      It's the two Santa's since Reagan. Whenever Dems have power it's always about being fiscally responsible and not raising taxes. When they are they just ignore what they say and spend like a drunken Santa while cutting taxes for the rich.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      The current usage of the term "conservative" is just a fig leaf to hide the less-palatable aims of a radical fundamentalist agenda aimed at attacking most modern aspects of our society. Go find any definition of conservatism written by traditional conservative intellectuals, and you will find Trumpists are directly opposed to most of it. Basically, conservatives got increasingly angry (because things inevitably do change), so they decided to give up on conservatism and flip the table instead. One intellectual upstream of Trumpism is the writings of Mencius Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin), who laid out how mere conservatism wasn't enough because "Cthulhu swims left" still, and coined his philosophy "reactionary". This also ties into one of the commonly-described dynamics of fascism - invoking an idea of some imagined idyllic past, as a reason that the current society needs to be attacked and destroyed. I had never voted for a major party candidate in a national election until Biden 2020 and Harris 2024. I consider those solidly actually-conservative votes, and partially attribute them to my getting older and more actually-conservative.
      - detourdog 1y ago

WalterBright 1y ago

> government debt is inherently bad and a government's budget needs to be balanced We're going to find out if that is true or not.

mschuster91 1y ago
For heavens sake WE ALREADY HAVE FOUND THAT OUT. Look at Germany: 16 years of austerity policy have left our infrastructure so thoroughly compromised it literally falls apart - we were damn lucky that that bridge collapse in Dresden end of last year didn't kill anyone! And even in the US you see it with every presidential change: Democrat governments cut services and expenditures because the last Republican cut taxes for the wealthy, the frustration leads to people vote for Republicans who introduce yet another round of billionaire tax cuts and blow up the government debt by untold billions of dollars, rinse and repeat.

detourdog 1y ago

I can't even tell what the current ideology of the US is. The current thought seems to be that debt doesn't matter but social programs are waste. So we must run up deficits while reducing spending. The US seems to be combining the worst of both ideologies. I can't imagine what happens next.

Hikikomori 1y ago
Not much room to cut taxes for the rich without increasing the deficit which they've said must go down, so their great solution is to cut welfare programs to give a tax cut for the rich.
- detourdog 1y ago
  That is not my confusion. My confusion is that they are labeled conservative.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    It's the two Santa's since Reagan. Whenever Dems have power it's always about being fiscally responsible and not raising taxes. When they are they just ignore what they say and spend like a drunken Santa while cutting taxes for the rich.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    The current usage of the term "conservative" is just a fig leaf to hide the less-palatable aims of a radical fundamentalist agenda aimed at attacking most modern aspects of our society. Go find any definition of conservatism written by traditional conservative intellectuals, and you will find Trumpists are directly opposed to most of it. Basically, conservatives got increasingly angry (because things inevitably do change), so they decided to give up on conservatism and flip the table instead. One intellectual upstream of Trumpism is the writings of Mencius Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin), who laid out how mere conservatism wasn't enough because "Cthulhu swims left" still, and coined his philosophy "reactionary". This also ties into one of the commonly-described dynamics of fascism - invoking an idea of some imagined idyllic past, as a reason that the current society needs to be attacked and destroyed. I had never voted for a major party candidate in a national election until Biden 2020 and Harris 2024. I consider those solidly actually-conservative votes, and partially attribute them to my getting older and more actually-conservative.
    - detourdog 1y ago